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  • I'm wrong.
    Last edited by WalkingEye; 06-16-2019, 05:42 AM.

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    • Originally posted by WalkingEye View Post

      When a mage dies, all of her spells are immediately relinquished as though the player spent a Willpower point. pg118

      so when you die its a safe relinquish.
      Spending a Willpower point is an unsafe relinquish, spending a dot is how you safely relinquish. KaiserAfini is correct.


      Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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      • When casting a spell, is a mage aware of the withstand rating of their subject? If not, are they told what it is after attempting a cast or is that something that's kept more or less secret?

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        • Originally posted by RobinCoyote View Post
          When casting a spell, is a mage aware of the withstand rating of their subject? If not, are they told what it is after attempting a cast or is that something that's kept more or less secret?
          I think they aren't, but a Knowing spell can inform that, if they are not in a hurry. Subtle cues also help, a prominent politician will probably have high composure, a marathon runner will have high stamina and a stubborn person probably has high resolve. In general this is a fair assumption about base stats and skill dots:

          • Substandard, weaker at it than most people
          •• Average, everyday level
          ••• Eminent expert level, a very strong athlete, a gifted diplomat, an intelligent researcher
          •••• Respected master, a standard of excellence in this skill or stat, a world class talent
          ••••• Peak human level

          So unless its a main antagonist or a powerful supernatural, those help make a fair estimation, since being extremely powerful outside their specialties will be rarer.

          I think the final Potency is kept vague as a general rule and the GM gives you a narrative baseline to work with. But you can always houserule it otherwise, if it suits your table.
          Last edited by KaiserAfini; 06-16-2019, 12:18 PM.


          New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


          The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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          • Originally posted by RobinCoyote View Post
            When casting a spell, is a mage aware of the withstand rating of their subject? If not, are they told what it is after attempting a cast or is that something that's kept more or less secret?

            They're aware that the spell is still active, but if the subject isn't affected they can infer that it's been Withstood. They *don't* know the Withstand rating (and you shouldn't tell your players, strictly speaking - just "it doesn't seem to affect him," etc)

            Of course, spells like Know Nature and Analyse Life can tell the player how many dots in a particular attribute their character's subject has, but that takes time.


            Dave Brookshaw

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            • Originally posted by RobinCoyote View Post
              When casting a spell, is a mage aware of the withstand rating of their subject? If not, are they told what it is after attempting a cast or is that something that's kept more or less secret?
              As the others explained, after casting the ST will probably keep the Withstand a secret. The player can guess the Withstand by observing how well the spell is working but it is a guess.

              One time a player of mine knew how Withstand works (a spell withstood continues to exist but doesn't appear to do anything) and when he was cast on by a mastigos hoping to control him, the spell wasn't strong enough. But his character acted like he was under control and fooled the mastigos with a subterfuge roll and successfully stole a thing he needed.

              I feel examples help with things like these. It is easier to remember rules when you know how to use them in unusual ways.

              Theres one more reason withstand is kept secret other than to create paranoia--withstand ratings can change. By spending 1 wp a turn, a subject boosts their Withstand by 2. This is only for a turn but, if a mastigos is ordering to kill yourself, you can spend a point of willpower, resist the spell for a turn, and shoot the mastigos (unfortunately the mastigos's spell keeps living without the caster, next turn you kill yourself without dispellation or more wp to spend)

              Rules like this can create weird scenarios and mysteries. Imagine discovering that murder scene as a mage and trying to piece what happened together.

              With the WP boosting Withstand rule, this means a player has to guess the Withstand and exceed it with potency. If they wanna be sure the victim cannot will their way through it, they need to exceed the Withstand not by 1, but by 3. If the Composure of a victim of a Fate spell is 3, their Withstand is 3, and 5 with wp spent. The Acanthus needs Potency 4 for the spell to work, but needs 6 to be sure.
              Assume here the acanthus is guessing the composure is 3. Its not common but its a safe assumption. When I cast I assume Withstand will be at least 3.
              Spells that do something a number of times equal to potency like a hex, are also a good way to find out someone's Withstand just on math. If Potency is 5 and you use the hex twice, you know their Conposure is 3. Again, wp spending can trick this.

              And, if guessing the Withstand and exceeding it is too risky for a Mage, they can always try ignoring it with a Praxis, as exceptional successes negate Withstand!

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              • About Possession (Mind 4)

                Am I right to assume you can possess objects by using this spell? It doesn't specify you can't, and the Possessed Condition expects this.

                Another question maybe is, shouldn't Possession talk about multiple subjects instead of allowing only the caster to possess others? The explanation given in the Possessed Condition (superimposition of an ethereal form onto a physical target) seems to indicate it would not be that weird for a Mage to force a subject other them themself to possess another, as a Mage is perfectly capable of Astral Projecting others. There are a few of these spells which seem to work on the Mage alone and I always find that they don't mesh well with the rest of 2E.

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                • I have a question about interaction with Angels and Demons (God-machine), the brother of a character apparently is now the Cover of a Demon (via pact), I would like to know if there is any place that explains how mages deal with this type of supernatural creature, how does Mage Sight interact with Covers and everything else.

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                  • Originally posted by jclepf View Post
                    I have a question about interaction with Angels and Demons (God-machine), the brother of a character apparently is now the Cover of a Demon (via pact), I would like to know if there is any place that explains how mages deal with this type of supernatural creature, how does Mage Sight interact with Covers and everything else.

                    Demons have an ability called Spoof.
                    Originally posted by Demon the Descent, page 112
                    Spoof
                    Whenever a demon is subjected to an effect that might reveal her to be a supernatural being, she may attempt to “spoof” the effect, fooling it into thinking she’s an ordinary human. A demon cannot spoof in demonic form, for obvious reasons. The demon does not have to be aware of the effect to spoof it; spoofing happens reflexively. The demon does not necessarily know where the incoming detection attempt is coming from.
                    Spoofing doesn’t affect any power or effect that doesn’t explicitly detect whether a target is human or supernatural, nor does it inhibit any effects other than that detection. It also doesn’t replace a demon’s ability to contest the effect. For example, if a human psychic tries to read a demon’s aura, the demon can spoof the psychic’s ability to detect that she isn’t human, but not his ability to read her emotional state. She might, however, get a contested roll against the power.
                    Spoofing does work against effects that would detect the demon as supernatural by implication. For example, if a mage cast a spell that lets him detect every human mind in a 20-yard radius, a demon could spoof the effect since not registering as a human is a dead giveaway that she’s a supernatural entity.
                    Dice Pool: Cover
                    Cost:
                    Action: Reflexive
                    Roll Results
                    Dramatic Failure: Not only does the demon fail to spoof the effect, anyone observing becomes aware that she’s not human even if the effect would only impart that information to one person. Knowing that she’s not human does not specifically tell an observer that she is a demon unless they would have another way of knowing or recognizing that information.
                    Failure: The effect functions normally.
                    Success: The effect is spoofed. It registers the demon as an ordinary human. Further readings by the same effect during the same scene continue to read the demon as a normal human.
                    Exceptional Success: As a normal success, but any uses of the same effect by the same character for the rest of the story register the demon as human.
                    So the differences might be visible under mage sight and specific spells (Prime 1's Pierce Deception being the most direct way), but the Demon can always try to spoof it into making the mage see them as a normal human.
                    Last edited by Andrew Kaninchen; 06-21-2019, 03:49 PM.

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                    • Pacts should show up to Fate or Space analysis unless they got some more of their "we just win" BS for those.. (Due to the agreement to the doom and the relationship, respectively.)



                      Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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                      • Originally posted by Andrew Kaninchen View Post
                        About Possession (Mind 4)

                        Am I right to assume you can possess objects by using this spell? It doesn't specify you can't, and the Possessed Condition expects this.

                        Another question maybe is, shouldn't Possession talk about multiple subjects instead of allowing only the caster to possess others? The explanation given in the Possessed Condition (superimposition of an ethereal form onto a physical target) seems to indicate it would not be that weird for a Mage to force a subject other them themself to possess another, as a Mage is perfectly capable of Astral Projecting others. There are a few of these spells which seem to work on the Mage alone and I always find that they don't mesh well with the rest of 2E.
                        I see no reason you couldn't possess an object.

                        There are spells in the game that specify the Mage as the subject by default, but there's no reason to assume that the Mage -must- be the subject. So yes, you can cast Possession on someone else. Just make sure your Scale factors are set up accordingly.

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                        • Do memories have sympathetic ties to their subjects?
                          Like if a guy had a memory of a small town in Connecticut,
                          or a chick had a fond memory of a music box their friend once owned.
                          Do these memories hold ties to their subjects, or is it just the owners of these memories that have the ties?

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                          • Originally posted by Yelesom View Post
                            Do memories have sympathetic ties to their subjects?
                            Like if a guy had a memory of a small town in Connecticut,
                            or a chick had a fond memory of a music box their friend once owned.
                            Do these memories hold ties to their subjects, or is it just the owners of these memories that have the ties?
                            Memories would have Sympathy to the person that created them.

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                            • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

                              Memories would have Sympathy to the person that created them.
                              Nothing more?

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                              • Yelesom I would argue the existance of a strong connection with the creator of the memory and a number of "fainter" secondary to otjer things (entities, places, moments, concepts) that the memory evokes.

                                If Joe has a memory of his ex, Anna, then the memory would be connected primarily to Joe (he created the memory) and with a lesser degree to Anna (it is not her memory, but she was instrumental and present in the memory's creation)

                                On the other hand, memories of Joe with things that were not instrumental in the memory's creation will have only Joe as a sympathetic connection. Ex Joe's memory of a random taxi ride

                                In game terms I would assign "secondary" sympathy connecting the contents of the memory with the memory itself with strength equal to how much sympathy the contents of the memory had to the memory's creator at the time of creation.

                                I hope it helped more than it confused you 😛
                                Last edited by Shadowjim12; 06-23-2019, 10:47 PM.

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