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  • About the spell "as above so below", on which kind of yantra do you think it works?
    Only environmental and tools?
    Could work on some or all actions?

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    • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
      About the spell "as above so below", on which kind of yantra do you think it works?
      Only environmental and tools?
      Could work on some or all actions?
      As all spells it's cast on a subject. It can work for environmental Yantras (if big enough to cover the relevant area) as well as any physical Tool Yantras. For actions, I'd say the spell needs to be cast on whoever performs the action, and that you decide which action style Yantra you intend to affect when casting the spell.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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      • The spell Haunted Grimoire from Signs of sorcery puzzles me.
        The complexity of the spell seems to imply that the caster perform it to receive a boost on the primary factor of the inscribed spell.
        The rules work well for low level spells, but for level 3+ spells it require a spirit so powerful that it almost alway win the first clash of will and gets free.
        Is it supposed to work that way?
        Or it is an errata and the spirit should use rank+power for the clash?

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        • When using Sympathetic Range, is the 'active' link that between the sympathetic yantra and the target, or between the mage and the target?


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          • Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
            When using Sympathetic Range, is the 'active' link that between the sympathetic yantra and the target, or between the mage and the target?
            The mage and the subject.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • The Mage and the subject.


              Dave Brookshaw

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              • I don t know if it has been asked before, how could you assess the integrity/wisdom score of someone?
                Soul mark could be useful?

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                • Ok, so. Wisdom degeneration.
                  In the 4-7 (Medium/Understanding) category it says that allowing a sleeper to witness obvious magic, thus risking greater paradox, can cause wisdom degeneration. If a mage allows a sleeper to witness obvious magic, but at the same time spends extra mana to nullify the extra dice from the sleeper witness and reduces the spell's paradox to a chance die, does he still need to roll for wisdom degeneration?

                  Also, would you give bonus dice to a wisdom degeneration roll if the mage's life was in danger when casting the spell that triggered it?

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                  • I'd say it's still the standard degeneration check. Quiescence spiritually harms the observer, regardless of extra effort put in to mitigate the external effects.

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                    • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                      I don t know if it has been asked before, how could you assess the integrity/wisdom score of someone?
                      Soul mark could be useful?
                      I'd say no, Integrity isn't really a measure of how healthy your soul is. Neither is Wisdom. I'd err toward not allowing a spell to check either.

                      Originally posted by Emerus View Post
                      Ok, so. Wisdom degeneration.
                      In the 4-7 (Medium/Understanding) category it says that allowing a sleeper to witness obvious magic, thus risking greater paradox, can cause wisdom degeneration. If a mage allows a sleeper to witness obvious magic, but at the same time spends extra mana to nullify the extra dice from the sleeper witness and reduces the spell's paradox to a chance die, does he still need to roll for wisdom degeneration?

                      Also, would you give bonus dice to a wisdom degeneration roll if the mage's life was in danger when casting the spell that triggered it?
                      What Inodiv said.

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                      • Ok, so the spiritual harm to the observer is more important than the paradox effects. I get that. Thus, we roll for Wisdom. Would you give any bonus dice to the roll, because of the paradox mitigation and/or the personal risk to the mage which made the spell necessary? Like for instance when the spell/action that caused the Wisdom degeneration roll was done in defense of one's Virtue, the books says you get +1 die. Would something similar be applicable for other situations as well?

                        Edit: Another question that came to mind. Does the tass produced at a hallow have an expiration date? Or can it be harvested and kept for an indefinite amount of time?
                        Last edited by Emerus; 10-05-2019, 10:13 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Emerus View Post
                          Ok, so the spiritual harm to the observer is more important than the paradox effects. I get that. Thus, we roll for Wisdom. Would you give any bonus dice to the roll, because of the paradox mitigation and/or the personal risk to the mage which made the spell necessary? Like for instance when the spell/action that caused the Wisdom degeneration roll was done in defense of one's Virtue, the books says you get +1 die. Would something similar be applicable for other situations as well?
                          I would not give any kind of bonus to the degeneration roll; just because you take care to protect your fist before punching someone doesn't mean you didn't punch someone, likewise here: you didn't do anything for the victim, just yourself.

                          Edit: Another question that came to mind. Does the tass produced at a hallow have an expiration date? Or can it be harvested and kept for an indefinite amount of time?
                          I believe if the tass is collected in a perishable substance it goes bad when the substance goes bad, but otherwise remains indefinitely.


                          Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                          • I wouldn't personally give any bonus dice. Being put in a hard situation doesn't generally result in bonus dice for Wisdom rolls by my take.

                            If anything, it can penalize them (see impassioned murder vs premeditated). The Mage shouldn't have let themselves get into that situation.

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                            • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                              I don t know if it has been asked before, how could you assess the integrity/wisdom score of someone?
                              Soul mark could be useful?
                              Not really but you can guess by spying on someones longterm nimbus. The more their nimbus leaks, the lower their wisdom. When I run Guardians this is how they catch low-wisdom Mages, and I have hunters call these "witch-signs" and similarly, find low-wisdom mages my discovering their their nimbus is leaking.

                              However you did inspire me to think up a spell that does it. It might be a bit of a stretch but, I think 2 or 3 of Mind Prime and or Time mixed at the Knowing practice will tell you how in-control of their magic the subject is, and give Wisdom based on how much their letting their power leak through from their careless regard for their actions. The important component is Time, because if wisdom cannot be read directly, then a spell that only tells you how severe the after-effects of low wisdom have been for your target, should also tell you the wisdom itself. Id be willing to believe it wont give an accurate result though, like giving "understanding wisdom" as the answer instead of an exact number.

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                              • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

                                I'd say no, Integrity isn't really a measure of how healthy your soul is. Neither is Wisdom. I'd err toward not allowing a spell to check either.
                                Page 299 literally describes Integrity as the health of the Soul. I think having particularly Low or High Integrity or Wisdom should count as a Soul Mark. I'd tell a player wether the character falls into Elightened, Understanding or Falling Wisdom, or if they get either a big or small bonus/penalty to breaking points.

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