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  • Does the Spirit 4 attainment “Honorary Rank” apply the mage’s honorary rank to all ephemera or specifically to spirits?

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    • Originally posted by Lord Jub-Jub View Post
      Does the Spirit 4 attainment “Honorary Rank” apply the mage’s honorary rank to all ephemera or specifically to spirits?
      Specifically spirits.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • Are there any resources, 1e or 2e, that denote the commonality of sleepwalkers? Specifically those that are not a supernatural splat or possessing some other internal supernatural ability.

        Recently got into a discussion with some other STs about this and it seems pretty divided into thinking that people who are just sleepwalkers with nothing else going on are more rare than say vampires or werewolves, whereas on my side I would think sleepwalkers would be more common than any splat by sheer virtue that mortals are just so much more numerous and there is at least some evidence that mortals exposed to supernal(or abyssal) magic can experience a fitful slumber and become a sleepwalker

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        • Originally posted by Lord Jub-Jub View Post
          Are there any resources, 1e or 2e, that denote the commonality of sleepwalkers? Specifically those that are not a supernatural splat or possessing some other internal supernatural ability.

          Recently got into a discussion with some other STs about this and it seems pretty divided into thinking that people who are just sleepwalkers with nothing else going on are more rare than say vampires or werewolves, whereas on my side I would think sleepwalkers would be more common than any splat by sheer virtue that mortals are just so much more numerous and there is at least some evidence that mortals exposed to supernal(or abyssal) magic can experience a fitful slumber and become a sleepwalker
          Just like actual Mage populations, it's going to be a table consideration. The only thing that's "known" is that Sleepwalkers tend to be more numerous than Mages themselves since they make up the bulk of the Orders.

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          • Is this thread open for any questions? The original post for this thread does not say what this thread is for.

            Scouring your pattern. Are there any long term consequences for repeatedly scouring your pattern for mana? For instance, maybe you scour your stamina or health day after day. Would there be any consequences for doing this in the long run?

            Can you learn or develop your own Mudras? I know that your order teaches you their mudras, their rote specialties. These bestow an additional die, above and beyond the skill used for the rote. However, the orders forbid teaching them to those outside their order. Despite this, I would like to be able to learn more mudras or even develop them. I think this would be especially important if you wanted to form your own order or something. Did I mention the extra die?

            Life 4 - Regeneration. Can I make this effect lasting? From what I understand, I could make the spell permanent indefinite (with 2 reaches and a point of mana), but that leaves it open to being dispelled or be detected with mage sight.

            Can you learn a praxis or rote for mage sight? I want to be able to use mage sight for common and inferior arcanum without spending mana.
            Last edited by DivineWrath; 02-07-2020, 07:17 PM.

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            • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
              Can you learn or develop your own Mudras? I know that your order teaches you their mudras, their rote specialties. These bestow an additional die, above and beyond the skill used for the rote. However, the orders forbid teaching them to those outside their order. Despite this, I would like to be able to learn more mudras or even develop them. I think this would be especially important if you wanted to form your own order or something. Did I mention the extra die?
              The Mudra is the Yantra that you can use for Rotes. Each Rote has its own Mudra that is connected to a specific Skill. Anyone who learns a Rote will learn to use that Mudra.

              When in an Order you gain a +1 bonus on Mudras that use one of the Order Rote Skills. The reason each Order has those specific Rote Skills is because of how magic is taught within that Order. You can't just simply learn additional Order Rote Skills. It's not a huge loss since it's a +1 bonus that you might not even get if you've reached 5+ dots in the Skill already.

              Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
              Life 4 - Regeneration. Can I make this effect lasting? From what I understand, I could make the spell permanent (with 2 reaches and a point of mana), but that leaves it open to being dispelled or be detected with mage sight.
              Not as written, no. If you want a similar effect that is Lasting, cast a Life 3 spell to impart a regenerative property on the subject, and wait for the limb to regrow.

              Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
              Can you learn a praxis or rote for mage sight? I want to be able to use mage sight for common and inferior arcanum without spending mana.
              No. Mage Sight isn't a spell (anymore; it used to be a collection of spells in first edition). But you can gain one additional Ruling Arcanum (which thus also makes Mage Sight with that Arcanum free) by joining a Legacy, and there are spells for mages to share their own Mage Sights with others, which can circumvent the cost.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
                Is this thread open for any questions? The original post for this thread does not say what this thread is for.

                Scouring your pattern. Are there any long term consequences for repeatedly scouring your pattern for mana? For instance, maybe you scour your stamina or health day after day. Would there be any consequences for doing this in the long run?

                Can you learn or develop your own Mudras? I know that your order teaches you their mudras, their rote specialties. These bestow an additional die, above and beyond the skill used for the rote. However, the orders forbid teaching them to those outside their order. Despite this, I would like to be able to learn more mudras or even develop them. I think this would be especially important if you wanted to form your own order or something. Did I mention the extra die?

                Life 4 - Regeneration. Can I make this effect lasting? From what I understand, I could make the spell permanent (with 2 reaches and a point of mana), but that leaves it open to being dispelled or be detected with mage sight.

                Can you learn a praxis or rote for mage sight? I want to be able to use mage sight for common and inferior arcanum without spending mana.
                You can develop your own rotes with an arcana at 5 and then choose the rote skill for it. Thats effectively developing your own mudras. Try not to use the term permanent for indefinite and relinquished too, it looks like you already know they can be dispelled and/or eroded eventually but it still the wrong term and can confuse new people.

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                • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
                  Life 4 - Regeneration. Can I make this effect lasting? From what I understand, I could make the spell permanent (with 2 reaches and a point of mana), but that leaves it open to being dispelled or be detected with mage sight.
                  As a point of interest, you can alter your pattern (usually done with weaving) to give yourself the property of regeneration so that your body will naturally grow back that which it lost. It's slow and obviously won't work if you're trying to grow back the portion of your brain that allows for consciousness (emphasis on your), but in that respect it's superior to the actual Regeneration spell since its effects ARE lasting (obviously you'll drop the spell once you've regrown whatever it is that you need).

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                  • Originally posted by totalgit View Post
                    Try not to use the term permanent for indefinite and relinquished too, it looks like you already know they can be dispelled and/or eroded eventually but it still the wrong term and can confuse new people.
                    Oh, sorry. I picked the wrong word then. I should have used Indefinite. Permanent has the same meaning in DND 3.5. I'll edit my post.

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                    • So this is a doozy and I'm surprised it has not come up before:

                      The spell stacking rules state "
                      When multiple spells affect the same aspect of a character the effects of the spells do not stack, and instead the spell with the highest Potency takes effect.
                      Now the question is if a character had a "Honing the form spell" with potency 3 giving +3 to strength on them and somebody else casts a "Degrading the form" also on strength spell with a potency of 2 to give -2 strength. (both spells have a week duration) Will the degrading spell be suppressed due to the spell stacking rules because both spells affect the same aspect of the character. IE Strength. The fact that one is a positive modifier and one is a negative modifier is not mentioned as mattering for the purpose of the spell stacking rule. So then the "degrading" spell is suppressed by the "honing" spell. Others seem to think this is a dumb idea and that the positive and negative modifiers are different or that they both work at the same time so you would end up with a +1 strength net. Is my reading of the spell stacking rules completely wrong or am I just a subject of gaslighting?

                      The "aspect of a character" part also now has me wondering if the spell stacking rules do not apply to things that are not a character, ie items. Surely it would have been worded as "aspect of something/anything/everything" if it were to apply across the board to characters and items?
                      Last edited by totalgit; 02-07-2020, 08:38 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by totalgit View Post
                        So this is a doozy and I'm surprised it has not come up before:

                        The spell stacking rules state "

                        Now the question is if a character had a "Honing the form spell" with potency 3 giving +3 to strength on them and somebody else casts a "Degrading the form" also on strength spell with a potency of 2 to give -2 strength. (both spells have a week duration) Will the degrading spell be suppressed due to the spell stacking rules because both spells affect the same aspect of the character. IE Strength. The fact that one is a positive modifier and one is a negative modifier is not mentioned as mattering for the purpose of the spell stacking rule. So then the "degrading" spell is suppressed by the "honing" spell. Others seem to think this is a dumb idea and that the positive and negative modifiers are different or that they both work at the same time so you would end up with a +1 strength net. Is my reading of the spell stacking rules completely wrong or am I just a subject of gaslighting?

                        The "aspect of a character" part also now has me wondering if the spell stacking rules do not apply to things that are not a character, ie items. Surely it would have been worded as "aspect of something/anything/everything" if it were to apply across the board to characters and items?
                        I would say they're not the same effects, they're opposite effects. You combine them and then keep the difference. So in your example, a +3 mod added to a -2 mod would be +1 mod.

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                        • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post

                          I would say they're not the same effects, they're opposite effects. You combine them and then keep the difference. So in your example, a +3 mod added to a -2 mod would be +1 mod.
                          You could be right and they are not the same effect but then you could also say that modifying an attribute up or down is the same effect, it is only the value that is different too (positive or negative its still a modification to an attribute after all) even if they are not the same effect they DO affect the same aspect of the character (Strength). Which is all the spell stacking rules require for them to function? Does stack for this purpose means only positive modifiers? Well no since two negative modifiers would also not stack? Does it then mean only the same type of modifiers? So you cant stack multiple positive modifiers but you can also have negative modifiers that cant stack together? And have two stacks, one for positive modifiers and one for negative modifiers? It doesn't seem to make that distinction.
                          Last edited by totalgit; 02-08-2020, 12:44 AM.

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                          • The only thing I have to work with is that one paragraph you quoted. And the last sentence for combined spells (I found it while doing a pdf search for "spell stacking"). The book does not mention spell stacking anywhere else (except when it tries to point you to where it is). So I don't think we're going to able to solve this problem by looking at the book.

                            Core Rulebook, p. 119
                            Spell stacking still applies if the
                            constituent spells affect the same thing.
                            I fear I may have muddied the waters by discovering that.
                            Last edited by DivineWrath; 02-08-2020, 01:35 AM.

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                            • Well, no answer to the long term effects of scouring your pattern for mana daily.

                              A follow up for mage sight.

                              Is there anyway of knowing what kind of mage sight you need to be using? I don't want to be flipping through a bunch of different mage sights, wasting mana in the process, in order to study whatever phenomena your peripheral mage sight alerts you to.

                              Does peripheral mage sight have the same range as active mage sight? Could it detect something happening in a building on the other side of the street? Would the said building block my active mage sight?

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                              • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
                                Well, no answer to the long term effects of scouring your pattern for mana daily.
                                The long term effects of reducing your Health and/or Stamina every day for magical power are that your Health and/or Stamina is going to be lower every day.

                                Is there anyway of knowing what kind of mage sight you need to be using? I don't want to be flipping through a bunch of different mage sights, wasting mana in the process, in order to study whatever phenomena your peripheral mage sight alerts you to.
                                Per Signs of Sorcery, Using Focused Mage Sight on a Mystery it doesn't apply to allows you to Reveal what Arcanum it falls under and (almost) nothing else.

                                Does peripheral mage sight have the same range as active mage sight?
                                If the area or point of origin of an effect is within reach of your senses (including recordings or magical channels of observation), it triggers your Periphery. If you can directly observe a phenomenon with your senses, Active Mage Sight can tell you relevant information about it.


                                Resident Lore-Hound
                                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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