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  • Originally posted by THE DUNKENING View Post
    I'm curious, how does that reconcile with the death spell "Shadow Crafting"? According to that spell, Death by itself seems fully capable of granting material properties to shadows, which ordinarily do not have them.
    The combination of Death and shadows is notorious for breaking the rules.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

      The combination of Death and shadows is notorious for breaking the rules.
      Perhaps, but it's not only death that does it. Even something like the direct damage Matter spells seem to spill over into other arcana. Windstrike doesn't deal damage because of any base property of air, it deals damage because of the force put behind the air, and that force is directly under the purview of Forces. Yet, conjunctional Forces isn't required for that spell.

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      • Originally posted by THE DUNKENING View Post
        Perhaps, but it's not only death that does it. Even something like the direct damage Matter spells seem to spill over into other arcana. Windstrike doesn't deal damage because of any base property of air, it deals damage because of the force put behind the air, and that force is directly under the purview of Forces. Yet, conjunctional Forces isn't required for that spell.
        Direct damage spells are notorious for breaking the rules.

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        • Question created by the recent brief exchange about werewolves and Spirit:
          How do werewolves perceive a mage with 4 or more dots in Spirit, since said mage now has spirit rank? Would they treat the mage like a spirit, be confused, or (due to technically being not spirits even if they deal with spirits as part of their normal existence) would they not notice change made by the Spirit 4 attainment at all?

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          • Originally posted by Newes View Post
            Question created by the recent brief exchange about werewolves and Spirit:
            How do werewolves perceive a mage with 4 or more dots in Spirit, since said mage now has spirit rank? Would they treat the mage like a spirit, be confused, or (due to technically being not spirits even if they deal with spirits as part of their normal existence) would they not notice change made by the Spirit 4 attainment at all?
            Werewolves have no innate way of knowing whether someone has Rank or not. They can't even tell what honorary Rank other werewolves have unless they can perceive another's Renown and know how Renown correlates to honorary Rank.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • Originally posted by Newes View Post
              Question created by the recent brief exchange about werewolves and Spirit:
              How do werewolves perceive a mage with 4 or more dots in Spirit, since said mage now has spirit rank? Would they treat the mage like a spirit, be confused, or (due to technically being not spirits even if they deal with spirits as part of their normal existence) would they not notice change made by the Spirit 4 attainment at all?
              Well, i dont know if werewolf can perceive ranks, but the mage acquire an honorary rank the same way as a werewolf does, so i think that there would be no confusion on the nature of the mage

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              • Psychic Domination (Mind 2) uses Potency for its primary spell factor. This makes me believe that if I cast it, give the command jump on the spot for 1 hour, and succeed, the person will do just that for one hour.

                1) Is that the case?

                2) If that is the case, does that mean reaching for advanced duration will allow me to give new orders for the rest of the scene?

                3) If that is not the case, why is the spell's primary factor potency instead of duration?

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                • Originally posted by Tabanese View Post
                  3) If that is not the case, why is the spell's primary factor potency instead of duration?
                  It's a Withstood spell whose effect is not inherently dependent upon lasting a long time.


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • Does that mean my initial interpretation is correct?

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                    • Originally posted by Tabanese View Post
                      Does that mean my initial interpretation is correct?
                      "The ideas form urges and desires within the subject that he is compelled to act upon even against his will as long as the spell remains active." You need Advanced Duration to make any command hold for longer than the timeframe represented by Transitory Duration.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                      • Originally posted by Tabanese View Post
                        Does that mean my initial interpretation is correct?
                        For the duration of the spell, you can give the target simple one-word commands that aren't against their will. (not sure how this is worked out, I think 99% of commands not using the extra reach options will probably count as against the targets will, hell if it's not why are you needing to mind control them?) If you use the reach version to give them commands against their will it specifically says only one task and it can not be suicidal, the +2 reach options sort that.

                        It seems odd that without any reach options, commanding somebody to "Jump" for an hour isn't against their will? Can anybody think of some examples for nonreach uses that don't seem dumb?
                        Last edited by totalgit; 06-15-2020, 12:17 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by totalgit View Post
                          It seems odd that without any reach options, commanding somebody to "Jump" for an hour isn't against their will? Can anybody think of some examples for nonreach uses that don't seem dumb?
                          Non-Reach also operates even against the target's will. The distinction is that without Reach you're limited to simple instructions that the target carries out in line with your intent, while Reach allows you the complexity of instruction to send the target to specific locations and/or carry out specific tasks.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                            Non-Reach also operates even against the target's will. The distinction is that without Reach you're limited to simple instructions that the target carries out in line with your intent, while Reach allows you the complexity of instruction to send the target to specific locations and/or carry out specific tasks.
                            Overcoming the withstand rating is basically overpowering their will and that's why its withstood, I just derped. The no reach option is like you say simple one-word commands. Being able to give multiple one-word commands esp with a long duration can still accomplish a lot i think. "Follow" (maybe a bit ambiguous), "Stop"/"Stay" etc..
                            Last edited by totalgit; 06-15-2020, 01:27 AM.

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                            • Crossover question: Does a Beast with Advanced Fame gain an increased sympathetic Withstand floor relative to their regular Fame dots?


                              Resident Lore-Hound
                              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                              • Question about mage sight

                                So from my understanding from Signs Of Sorcery, every mage sees the symbols of her path. Acanthus see the thorns and the mists, Thrysus feel Ecstacy and hear the singing paths, and so on.

                                So how does this color individual mages' perceptions? From what I understand, they all experience it in their own unique ways, but they still have the mainstays of they Realm of Arcana.

                                I geuss as an example, one of the Thrysus examples in the corebook experiences the Primal Wild through the lens of imperial Britain. Does she still feel ecstasy and hear the singing paths? How does her mage sight look like in addition to those?

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