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  • Originally posted by Max Deltree View Post
    2- Is a Demesne still Paradox-free? If so, how does reach work (if without a limit)?
    One can apply as many Reach effects as desired and that the spell can accommodate, and no Paradox is rolled for it (within the spatial limits of the demesne).

    As I was reminded of with my own questions earlier, the design of a given demesne does not necessarily render it a valid Yantra for every kind of spell within the appropriate Arcana, and it needs to be a Yantra to insulate from Paradox.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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    • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
      1) No
      2) Demesne's are only paradox free inside themselves. If you target an area larger then it or outside of it, it's still subject to paradox.
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

      One can apply as many Reach effects as desired and that the spell can accommodate, and no Paradox is rolled for it (within the spatial limits of the demesne).

      As I was reminded of with my own questions earlier, the design of a given demesne does not necessarily render it a valid Yantra for every kind of spell within the appropriate Arcana, and it needs to be a Yantra to insulate from Paradox.
      Thank you, guys.

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      • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

        One can apply as many Reach effects as desired and that the spell can accommodate, and no Paradox is rolled for it (within the spatial limits of the demesne).

        As I was reminded of with my own questions earlier, the design of a given demesne does not necessarily render it a valid Yantra for every kind of spell within the appropriate Arcana, and it needs to be a Yantra to insulate from Paradox.
        But, things like a sleeper witness can still cause paradoxes

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        • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

          But, things like a sleeper witness can still cause paradoxes
          Can they? I haven't read it in a while but I thought the rules said that they only cause disbelief on the demesne which can shut it off?

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          • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
            Can they? I haven't read it in a while but I thought the rules said that they only cause disbelief on the demesne which can shut it off?
            Sleepers are specifically described as causing Paradox in Verges and Demesnes. Sleepers also causing Dissonance against Demesnes (as long as they see obvious magic within it) is a separate rule.


            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
            One can apply as many Reach effects as desired and that the spell can accommodate, and no Paradox is rolled for it (within the spatial limits of the demesne).

            As I was reminded of with my own questions earlier, the design of a given demesne does not necessarily render it a valid Yantra for every kind of spell within the appropriate Arcana, and it needs to be a Yantra to insulate from Paradox.
            Note that a spell only needs to qualify for the Yantra bonus to gain the Paradox free advantage. You don't actually need to use the Yantra.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • Speaking of Paradox, mages can extend the casting time of an Instant spell to allow them to progressively spend their per turn limit in Mana as necessary for the spell's costs. Does this also work for applying Mana to reduce the Paradox dice pool; can you add a few extra turns to spend the Mana that will whittle it down? Or does your last turn spent casting the spell only afford whatever Mana is left over in you limit and then the dice need to be rolled?


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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              • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                Speaking of Paradox, mages can extend the casting time of an Instant spell to allow them to progressively spend their per turn limit in Mana as necessary for the spell's costs. Does this also work for applying Mana to reduce the Paradox dice pool; can you add a few extra turns to spend the Mana that will whittle it down? Or does your last turn spent casting the spell only afford whatever Mana is left over in you limit and then the dice need to be rolled?
                If you can't spend (or haven't spent) enough Mana during the turns you've used for applying Yantras, you can extend the casting time. No reason for Mana spent towards mitigating Paradox to be an exception.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  Speaking of Paradox, mages can extend the casting time of an Instant spell to allow them to progressively spend their per turn limit in Mana as necessary for the spell's costs. Does this also work for applying Mana to reduce the Paradox dice pool; can you add a few extra turns to spend the Mana that will whittle it down? Or does your last turn spent casting the spell only afford whatever Mana is left over in you limit and then the dice need to be rolled?
                  "Mages attempting a feat that requires Mana above their Gnosis-derived spending limits may take as many Turns as needed before the action to spend the required Mana. If they are interrupted or change their minds part-way through, Mana spent is still lost."


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • I find the wording of "attempting a feat" to be a tad ambiguous, is all. The more restrained part of me leans towards reading it as referring to the deliberate undertaking of the mage, which Paradox is not. The more forgiving side would conceive of the feat in question as being the deliberate act of mitigating the Paradox.

                    I'd be satisfied to go along with the apparent consensus. Or at least the first few people who said so.

                    Besides, I'm kind of inclined towards anything that makes instant casting need to take longer. The mage is readying this Life-Force Assault that will definitely kill the werewolf in one go without even the benefit of Defence, but it's going to take a few seconds more to line up all the Yantras and smooth out the Reaching imago. Gives time for complications to intrude.

                    I want to say that a spell being cast at sensory range is disrupted if the mage loses track of the target; you've spent four turns prepping this thing, only for the werewolf to duck behind a wall and quiet down.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                    • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                      I find the wording of "attempting a feat" to be a tad ambiguous, is all. The more restrained part of me leans towards reading it as referring to the deliberate undertaking of the mage, which Paradox is not. The more forgiving side would conceive of the feat in question as being the deliberate act of mitigating the Paradox.

                      I'd be satisfied to go along with the apparent consensus. Or at least the first few people who said so.

                      Besides, I'm kind of inclined towards anything that makes instant casting need to take longer. The mage is readying this Life-Force Assault that will definitely kill the werewolf in one go without even the benefit of Defence, but it's going to take a few seconds more to line up all the Yantras and smooth out the Reaching imago. Gives time for complications to intrude.

                      I want to say that a spell being cast at sensory range is disrupted if the mage loses track of the target; you've spent four turns prepping this thing, only for the werewolf to duck behind a wall and quiet down.
                      I would allow to spend extra turns for reducing paradox with mana.
                      I think that if you can spend extra turns to incorporate a yantra dice bonus, there is no reason to ban extra turns removing a malus

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                      • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                        I think that if you can spend extra turns to incorporate a yantra dice bonus, there is no reason to ban extra turns removing a malus
                        Removing a what now?


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                        • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                          Removing a what now?
                          A penalty i mean

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                          • 1) Could a general intelligence ai be made from forces only?
                            1.5) could it be made from a forces version of shaping and craftsman’s eye?
                            2) Would a spell that weaved the property “can spawn spirits” of resonance into a nimbus be entirely prime, or would it need some spirit?
                            2.5) How horrifically bad of an idea is it to do to yourself?
                            3) what minimum practice would needed to make a nimbus knot?
                            4) can a prime spell lower the amount of mana needed for pattern restoration? Or increase the amount you get from pattern scouring?
                            5) can a prime spell allow you to pattern restore someone else?
                            6) can platonic form make a space suit?
                            7) could death shielding protect you from hard vacuum?
                            8) can death stop you from the need to breathe?
                            9) does the void of space register to death mage sight?
                            10) could a prime perfecting give you the rote quality on rolls using the nimbus tilt?
                            11) could prime weaving make a node with the properties of the nimbus?
                            12) can the effects of being aligned with a node be bestowed on a nimbus using just prime, or would it be their respective arcanum?
                            13) can a life/ mind spell physically transport you to your oneiros?
                            13.5) can you use a life/mind spell to make your astral projection physical and project to the fallen world?
                            14) how bad of an idea is it to reverse gravity on myself with the right timing so I can fall to the moon.
                            14.5) if I never enter the shadow, how likely is it that I get attacked by void spirits while on the moon?
                            15) what practices would I need to include physical stats into the calculation of my dream form stats?
                            16) is there a spirit of the galaxy?
                            16.5) how could a mage communicate with it?
                            17) can a weaving of life and forces make somebody travel at light speed?
                            18) can a prime patterning turn a node into a hallow?
                            19) can a nimbus be turned into mana?
                            20) is a eidolon with true mind, not a goetia possible?


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                            • Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
                              1) Could a general intelligence ai be made from forces only?
                              1.5) could it be made from a forces version of shaping and craftsman’s eye?
                              Depends on what you mean by "Artificial Intelligence". Forces could be used to create a complex computer program that was at the bleeding edge of sophistication and then enhance the capabilities of the hardware to support the processing required, but it wouldn't be a "true" intelligence like what could be created with Mind, it would still be a computer program.

                              2) Would a spell that weaved the property “can spawn spirits” of resonance into a nimbus be entirely prime, or would it need some spirit?
                              2.5) How horrifically bad of an idea is it to do to yourself?
                              All sources of Essence eventually spawn spirits (or, rather, the Essence coalesces into a Spirit if it's not consumed by another Spirit, Essence is basically Rank NULL Spirits).

                              3) what minimum practice would needed to make a nimbus knot?
                              I don't know what this means, but minor alterations to the Nimbus are generally going to be Prime Weaving.

                              4) can a prime spell lower the amount of mana needed for pattern restoration? Or increase the amount you get from pattern scouring?
                              Probably Prime Perfecting. Something like: "Duration Primary, Cost: 1 Mana, for the Duration Pattern Restoration costs 1 Mana less and Scouring grants 1 additional Mana. +1 Reach: the reduction/increase is 2 Mana."

                              Also, the Life 2 Attainment "Improved Pattern Restoration" accomplishes the former.

                              5) can a prime spell allow you to pattern restore someone else?
                              Prime 3 Weaving if they're a Mage or Prime 4 Patterning if they're not, would be my guess for the Practices.

                              6) can platonic form make a space suit?
                              Yes, with the +2 Reach option to allow for a complex device.

                              7) could death shielding protect you from hard vacuum?
                              No, Death shielding cannot shield you from the abstract concept of death.

                              Forces shielding can, and Time Shielding can prevent you from asphyxiating.

                              8) can death stop you from the need to breathe?
                              Yes, via Shadow Flesh or moving into Twilight.

                              9) does the void of space register to death mage sight?
                              How do you mean?

                              10) could a prime perfecting give you the rote quality on rolls using the nimbus tilt?
                              Yes, but it would cost a Mana for the spell and would have Potency "charges."

                              11) could prime weaving make a node with the properties of the nimbus?
                              Yes.

                              12) can the effects of being aligned with a node be bestowed on a nimbus using just prime, or would it be their respective arcanum?
                              Would not require the respective Arcanum, but it wouldn't be useful to grant a Nimbus Node properties, since the Nimbus would have to be stationary to glean any benefit.

                              13) can a life/ mind spell physically transport you to your oneiros?
                              I'm not sure, but probably.

                              13.5) can you use a life/mind spell to make your astral projection physical and project to the fallen world?
                              Yes, you can create a new body and control it remotely.

                              14) how bad of an idea is it to reverse gravity on myself with the right timing so I can fall to the moon.
                              Make sure you're prepared to survive the trip and the destination!

                              14.5) if I never enter the shadow, how likely is it that I get attacked by void spirits while on the moon?
                              They're more likely to hitch a ride than attack.

                              15) what practices would I need to include physical stats into the calculation of my dream form stats?
                              You could use Mind/Life Weaving to let you choose between the highest of Mental, Social, or Physical Attributes for Power/Finesse/Resistance, but you couldn't just add you Physical Attributes to your Dream Form (I guess you could but it'd be easier to just boost your Dream Form Attributes directly).

                              16) is there a spirit of the galaxy?
                              Probably.

                              16.5) how could a mage communicate with it?
                              By traversing the Sidereal Wastes.

                              17) can a weaving of life and forces make somebody travel at light speed?
                              Yes, but I'd recommend adding a Conditional Duration of "when I would be absorbed" so that you don't end up dead.

                              Also, don't miss your target.

                              18) can a prime patterning turn a node into a hallow?
                              Yes.

                              19) can a nimbus be turned into mana?
                              Yes, but the Mana would "go away" after the Duration of the spell ended, so use it first!

                              20) is a eidolon with true mind, not a goetia possible?
                              That's what the Mind 5 conjunctional for the spell does, it doesn't create a Goetia.
                              Last edited by proindrakenzol; 04-09-2021, 01:42 PM.


                              Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                              • If an entire galaxy has a spirit in the Shadow, then it's probably Rank 10, which by all description places it in a category of almost impossible to verify even for an archmaster and so distantly removed from our frame of reference that mutual communication is basically impossible.

                                Like, a spirit of the planet Earth is in the area of "largely theoretical and probably incomprehensible and uncomprehending", something notably bigger than that is likely way out of the realms of practically all beings of lesser power.

                                Besides, Luna does not really like the idea of things coming down from the spirit world beyond the boundaries of the Earth, and Helios doesn't like them rising away from it.

                                As for the Astral, travel into the psychic reflections of the universe beyond the Solar System is technically possible, but severely impractical owing to the thousands of years of subjective time it is likely to take and the constant bombardment with the Ecstatic Wind.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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