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  • Awesome! Time to start brewing up ideas....

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    • Hi everyone. Long time reader, first time caller. I have finally started playing in my first Mage game. While we have be taking it slow and most of our play sessions are explaining thing and seeing how things work in a "classroom" setting, I have a lot of questions on spells and what you can do with them. I am a Moros and I have Death 3. There is a spell that really speaks to me: Shadow Crafting. Can you make any object you want? Can you make objects appear at a distance? Can you make a spike and impale someone with it?

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      • Originally posted by Hyuse View Post
        Hi everyone. Long time reader, first time caller. I have finally started playing in my first Mage game. While we have be taking it slow and most of our play sessions are explaining thing and seeing how things work in a "classroom" setting, I have a lot of questions on spells and what you can do with them. I am a Moros and I have Death 3. There is a spell that really speaks to me: Shadow Crafting. Can you make any object you want? Can you make objects appear at a distance? Can you make a spike and impale someone with it?
        Gut instinct tells me that…
        1) Any object the caster knows how it works. Knives are easy. Pistols, probably not, though your ST may allow a follow-up Skill roll to craft something complex. Or just extra Reach.
        2) You can only target shadows in your Range, so crafting shadows from a distance shouldn’t be done without sensory range.
        3) This looks like a separate attack roll, not a function of the spell itself. Or just extra Reach.


        MtAw Homebrew:
        Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
        New 2E Legacies, expanded

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        • Originally posted by Hyuse View Post
          There is a spell that really speaks to me: Shadow Crafting. Can you make any object you want?
          Yes, with the caveat that the damage modifier/equipment bonus/Armor rating means it's not going to be an extremely good specimen of whatever object it is.

          Can you make objects appear at a distance?
          With Advanced/Sensory Range or a successful Aimed Spell roll, yes.

          Can you make a spike and impale someone with it?
          You can make a spike, which can be used as a weapon or, with Reach, a stage hazard (per the Creative Thaumaturgy guidelines on making Environmental Tilts) on which someone could be impaled with enough damage done to impale them normally.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

            Gut instinct tells me that…
            1) Any object the caster knows how it works. Knives are easy. Pistols, probably not, though your ST may allow a follow-up Skill roll to craft something complex.
            Well, the spell description itself doesn't present any such requirement. Nor do comparable spells such as Platonic Form and Ex Nihilo. Shaping does, but I'd find that to be a function of how the shape the matter assumes is a bit secondary to the effect of the spell being causing the matter to have a pliant form.

            That leaves it to the observer to rule on, and my observation would be inclined in a direction away from stating that people with greater education in technical subjects get a leg up on the use of magic. I would think that what you want to make is contingent on how you can incorporate the desired result into an imago, and while a given individual can probably use technical knowledge there, I think it can be sufficient to just have perceptual familiarity to do so.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit
            2) You can only target shadows in your Range, so crafting shadows from a distance shouldn’t be done without sensory range.
            Hmm, now I'm wondering about aligning yourself to ensure that the shadow you cast crosses over with another shadow. Does the combined one count as a single subject?


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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            • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

              …... Shaping does, but I'd find that to be a function of how the shape the matter assumes is a bit secondary to the effect of the spell being causing the matter to have a pliant form.

              ……
              Mm, good call.

              Hmm, now I'm wondering about aligning yourself to ensure that the shadow you cast crosses over with another shadow. Does the combined one count as a single subject?
              Hmm… maybe Scale limits the size of the targetable shadow then?


              MtAw Homebrew:
              Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
              New 2E Legacies, expanded

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              • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                Hmm… maybe Scale limits the size of the targetable shadow then?
                I wouldn't think there's any maybe about it.

                The point of it would be being able to get access to a larger shadow without needing to Reach to cast the spell as sensory; you extend to it with one that is either already touching you (if connection to feet is considered valid) or that you can reach down to touch.

                I said aligning oneself before, but Shadow Sculpting would allow one to twist their own shadow into a form that can merge with other ones regardless of angle to light sources. Make it long and thin, maybe a bit mobile.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                • Maybe not so simple a question, but anyways:

                  Has anybody who played with the Tremere came across the 'magical consequences' backing up the Sevenfold Oaths? I don't think the book (NH-NA) detailed what exactly happens if someone breaks them. See, I'm thinking of homebrewing a House that teeters on breaking the seventh one by pretending they're keeping the sixth one...
                  Last edited by 21C Hermit; 10-23-2021, 09:05 PM.


                  MtAw Homebrew:
                  Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                  New 2E Legacies, expanded

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                    Maybe not so simple a question, but anyways:

                    Has anybody who played with the Tremere came across the 'magical consequences' backing up the Sevenfold Oaths? I don't think the book (NH-NA) detailed what exactly happens if someone breaks them. See, I'm thinking of homebrewing a House that teeters on breaking the seventh one by pretending they're keeping the sixth one...
                    I'm reasonably certain that just means the Sevenfold Oath is taken under Sworn Oaths or a similar Fate spell, which likewise means the variable wording alluded to sees equally variable consequences in the form of the hex breaking the oath applies.


                    Resident Lore-Hound
                    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                    • Speaking of hexes, do people think it would be valid to combine other Arcana with Fate to extend some of the possibilities of hexes and boons? Still as things expressed as quirks of bad luck, but maybe with specified vectors or physical effects.


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                      • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                        I'm reasonably certain that just means the Sevenfold Oath is taken under Sworn Oaths or a similar Fate spell, which likewise means the variable wording alluded to sees equally variable consequences in the form of the hex breaking the oath applies.
                        That makes sense.

                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        Speaking of hexes, do people think it would be valid to combine other Arcana with Fate to extend some of the possibilities of hexes and boons? Still as things expressed as quirks of bad luck, but maybe with specified vectors or physical effects.
                        Like adding Forces to hex someone into fritzing every electronic he comes across? Cool. Though without homebrew, I suppose we need something like Conditional Duration and Hung Spell to pull it off.

                        Still in the realm of homebrew, but certain Fate-heavy Legacies ought to have workarounds, I guess.


                        MtAw Homebrew:
                        Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                        New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                        • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                          Though without homebrew, I suppose we need something like Conditional Duration and Hung Spell to pull it off.
                          Why?


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                          • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                            Why?
                            I was speaking from a strictest sense of RAW. Of course tables may vary; I’d allow it for one, though maaaaybe with +1 Reach.


                            MtAw Homebrew:
                            Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                            New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                            • The way I see it, Sworn Oaths is a template that models the most basic capacity of oaths. The target willingly swears an oath, then they receive the benefit of a spell for adhering to it or a downside for violing it. The key detail is that the downside cannot be mitigated since it has no Withstand, but requires the willing participation of the target.

                              With Fate 5, for example, they could swear to fight a Banisher that is an enemy of the caster and be Destined to be very efficient in opposing them. But should they cooperate with them, they will be hit by an Unmaking of Fate, ending their treachery.

                              Another example is to use Life 2. Should the subject adhere to the oath, they continue to look like a different person. But should they start revealing the caster's involvement, they become subject to a Ruling effect that stops them from speaking.

                              In summary, a hex and a boon are the most elementary things to add to an oath. But more variation is certainly possible.
                              Last edited by KaiserAfini; 10-24-2021, 12:47 PM.


                              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                              The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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                              • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                                I was speaking from a strictest sense of RAW.
                                Ah, I was thrown a bit by your referring to it as homebrew. Admittedly, that's a bit of an ambiguous term when we have something like Creative Thaumaturgy and improvised magic.

                                I mean, you say in the strictest sense of rules as written, but what about the idea would break rules?

                                KaiserAfini, I feel changing appearance would put it a bit more dramatically beyond what I think would qualify as a boon, which admittedly makes me question the viability of the idea.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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