Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

[monteparnas]

2) If I’m moving near the speed of light, and use Forces to move faster than the speed of light, do I start to go back in time?

If the spell doesn't wave off physics, yes.

But you also collapse into a black hole in the process. A fairly massive one.

[TempleBuilder]

I wouldn't know myself, I was out of the loop for the first few years of Second Edition.

If you are interested, I found what I was talking about. It’s a bit less than I thought.

All organisms need respiration, but there are forms of it that don't require oxygen or carbon dioxide (mostly done by microorganisms). Still needs something like nitrates or sulfates, though.

I think Life could dramatically lower one's requirements, but not totally eliminate them, yeah. At least not before archmastery.

That’s disappointing.

Well converting things that are not food into food is going to require Patterning, although that leads back to my thought that imbibing something that has been transformed can be a dubious proposition.

This probably going to restart this debate again, but I’m not sure I see the problem? The effects of food seem Lasting. Maybe it does create some new material, but not much. Otherwise spells like Lodestone wouldn’t work because they require the creation of Force.

I'd say there's a question of the "we" there, if many expect the trip to be one-way (at least as far as those left behind are around for).

That’s what Space is for!

It depends on how one wants to handle the subject of Space magic to instantly return from trips far beyond the Earth. I'm thinking about the Dark Eras Mysteries where it was hard enough to teleport away from Caribbean desert islands or across the continental US to think that being so far removed comes with its own obstacles.

Oh, right. If there every was going to be a problem with Space, the vast distance and difference in environment will make one. That’s unfortunate.

I'd say Mysterium would be concerned but accepting if a Sophiad led beyond the Earth, Arrow would acknowledge somebody seeking the challenge, Ladder and Council could make a case for staking a claim for humanity and even Guardians could have an interest in what the Lie and Abyss are like far removed from humanity.

I’m sorry for the Guardians, but I don’t think the experiment will ever have conditions without humans. Even without that shard of the abyss, Mages still churn the waters so to speak.

Quicker too. You can spend subjective centuries crossing the Astral reflection of deep space (generally agreed to mirror the real thing) while only days pass in the waking world.

Well, that’s the thing though. Does it mirror the Fallen World? How would you ever know, without going to see for yourself? Now the time saving aspect of the Astral is a major point in it’s favor.

Although perhaps more accessible than safe; you're constantly bombarded with Ecstatic Winds like that, unless some greater power protects you.

I’d say it’s safer, even if you die, you come back to you body with some spiritual damage. Some major damage if killed by the winds, but still healable. The same is not true of the Fallen World.

I often think about implications of that spell being made indefinite. I picture a scenario where mages exploring some Roman catacomb come across a temporal distortion and dispel it, and before them materialises a young woman speaking Latin whom an ancient mage maliciously sealed from time for rejecting his advances. The cabal who found her had to balance between the desire to get her first hand accounts of everything and gently help her adjust to the experience.

Sleepwalker, to keep things a bit simpler. Probably already associated with and a bit knowing about mages.

Wow. I severely dislike that ancient mage now, and I’m not even playing. Good scenario!

If the spell doesn't wave off physics, yes.

But you also collapse into a black hole in the process. A fairly massive one.

Um do you mind explaining this a bit further? I think you are referring to the length part of Special Relativity, correct? Isn’t that an only observable from another rest frame? And isn’t actually something the moving object experiences on its frame of reference? And wouldn’t any object moving that faster than the speed of light have a negative length, whatever that means for the Universe? And I’m not sure how massive such a black hole would be since the spell isn’t adding mass. It’d be just me and my ship’s mass with a impossible density.

Though all of this is more of a argument towards physics not working with the spell, much like those Time spells avoid paradox.

[monteparnas]

Um do you mind explaining this a bit further? I think you are referring to the length part of Special Relativity, correct? Isn’t that an only observable from another rest frame? And isn’t actually something the moving object experiences on its frame of reference? And wouldn’t any object moving that faster than the speed of light have a negative length, whatever that means for the Universe? And I’m not sure how massive such a black hole would be since the spell isn’t adding mass. It’d be just me and my ship’s mass with a impossible density.

Though all of this is more of a argument towards physics not working with the spell, much like those Time spells avoid paradox.

Sure. Isator Levi is handling the rest very well.

Two main effects happen at such speed. First, the length part isn't just a 'frame of reference' thing in this sense. It's real. That's what so weird about it, given how space and time bend it is completely real despite not being seen by the object itself. That alone is enough to turn you into a Black Hole because the key is density, and you're into a process, before achieving faster-than-light speed you'll reach near-light and light speed. So you'll have an infinite density at some point, which is the definition of a singularity.

In other words, if you don't turn into a Black Hole because of the increasing density (which should happen), you become a Black Hole by definition when reaching light speed. It wouldn't make you supermassive, though.

But there's the equivalence between energy and mass. You are adding mass to yourself because energy has mass. In a demonstration in another thread I calculated some situations, the Krakatoa's eruption in the 19th century released so much energy that the energy itself of the eruption weighted about 5.5 Kg.

Energy has mass and it behaves as normal. It has momentum, inertia and gravity. That's why you can't actually reach the speed of light: the faster you are, the more mass you have due to all that kinetic energy, and so the more energy must be added to accelerate you the same amount again, building up to infinity. Reaching the speed of light would require infinite energy, getting too close to it would require the entire energy output of the universe.

And that weighs. That's what would make you supermassive.

[TempleBuilder]

Sure. Isator Levi is handling the rest very well.

Two main effects happen at such speed. First, the length part isn't just a 'frame of reference' thing in this sense. It's real. That's what so weird about it, given how space and time bend it is completely real despite not being seen by the object itself. That alone is enough to turn you into a Black Hole because the key is density, and you're into a process, before achieving faster-than-light speed you'll reach near-light and light speed. So you'll have an infinite density at some point, which is the definition of a singularity.

In other words, if you don't turn into a Black Hole because of the increasing density (which should happen), you become a Black Hole by definition when reaching light speed. It wouldn't make you supermassive, though.

But there's the equivalence between energy and mass. You are adding mass to yourself because energy has mass. In a demonstration in another thread I calculated some situations, the Krakatoa's eruption in the 19th century released so much energy that the energy itself of the eruption weighted about 5.5 Kg.

Energy has mass and it behaves as normal. It has momentum, inertia and gravity. That's why you can't actually reach the speed of light: the faster you are, the more mass you have due to all that kinetic energy, and so the more energy must be added to accelerate you the same amount again, building up to infinity. Reaching the speed of light would require infinite energy, getting too close to it would require the entire energy output of the universe.

And that weighs. That's what would make you supermassive.

Wow. I had forgotten. Thank you. This was a very clear and detailed answer.

[Mr.F.I.X.]

With how SoS introduced the idea of applying an imbued item into a creature instead of an item and how that creature if it possesses essance it may sound that essance in place of mana to fuel the imbued effect, would it be too much of a stretch to allow that to apply to other "fuel stats"?

[21C Hermit]

With how SoS introduced the idea of applying an imbued item into a creature instead of an item and how that creature if it possesses essance it may sound that essance in place of mana to fuel the imbued effect, would it be too much of a stretch to allow that to apply to other "fuel stats"?

Gonna have to reread the relevant parts, but… Both Essence and Mana are shaped by Resonance and thus ‘close enough’ for niche uses, I suspect the internal logic goes. Not so sure if the other fuels can be explained away that way. Maybe with a Merit or two, or some weird irregular trait.

[TempleBuilder]

Gonna have to reread the relevant parts, but… Both Essence and Mana are shaped by Resonance and thus ‘close enough’ for niche uses, I suspect the internal logic goes. Not so sure if the other fuels can be explained away that way. Maybe with a Merit or two, or some weird irregular trait.

I bet with relevant Arcanum, you can modify the process, so you don’t need those things. Certain fuels are cheaper than others, so maybe a exchange rate might be warranted.

[Mr.F.I.X.]

I bet with relevant Arcanum, you can modify the process, so you don’t need those things. Certain fuels are cheaper than others, so maybe a exchange rate might be warranted.

Definitely fair. In part I consider it because it isnt like they'll waste the word count on every possible fuel stat when in most common situations in a mage game essence will be the main non mana fuel, baring crossover ofc.

[Isator Levi]

Looking over how things are actually written, I'd just straight up go "if you manage to Imbue a spell into a vampire, they can spend Vitae to activate it".

The "if" there is dependent on an appropriate Weaving spell the same way as imbuing into any other subject than an item is, but I'd keep it simple. I think that in most cases supernatural energies are not transferable, but if you've got something set in place like an empowered item then I'd go with a logic that there's a channel ready to accommodate things.

I'm not just looking at the stuff in Signs of Sorcery there, I'm also considering how the Prime 1 spell to directly activate magical items lets you include one dot from any other suitable Arcanum to activate other items as well, and spend Mana in lieu of their usual costs. I'm not sure if there are ever items that would be fuelled by Vitae, but if there are any Initiate of Prime and Death could use them with substituted Mana, so I'd accept it going both ways.

[TempleBuilder]

Umm. Random thought time but, but what does someone’s astral form look like if they have Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder? Is it based on the current personality or are they both (or more) represented at the same time?

[monteparnas]

Umm. Random thought time but, but what does someone’s astral form look like if they have Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder? Is it based on the current personality or are they both (or more) represented at the same time?

It probably depends on the person's relationship with their own condition. I'd recommend looking for blogs and vlogs of people with the condition before asserting on an answer.

On my own searches I heard and read good things about the self advocates MultiplicityAndMe, Entropy System, DissociaDID and Team Piñata.

[Isator Levi]

Incidentally, all of that talk about Perfecting something moving at relativistic speeds made me consider that casting a Potency 3 spell (i.e. the default since that's the primary factor) can make a propeller aircraft about as fast as the X-15.

[TempleBuilder]

On my own searches I heard and read good things about the self advocates MultiplicityAndMe, Entropy System, DissociaDID and Team Piñata.

Thank you for sharing!
*reads the MultiplicityAndMe blog, particularly the parts about getting fired and getting unpleasant messages from strangers and not-strangers* Well, now I am sad. I guess I forget how awful people can be sometimes.

[TempleBuilder]

New questions:
1)Is damage done to a living creature under Deaths purview?
1.5)Can I move the damaged area, like changing Leg Wrack to Arm Wrack?
2)If I have damage to my pattern, would it be possible to transfer that damage to someone or something else, effectively healing the damage? Kinda like transferring charges between batteries, if damage was charge.
2.5)Can I do that with just Death?
3)Can I transfer momentum between two subjects?
4)Can I redirect my rotational velocity around the sun, or galaxy as a means to gain a rather high velocity quickly?

[KaiserAfini]

New questions:
1)Is damage done to a living creature under Deaths purview?
1.5)Can I move the damaged area, like changing Leg Wrack to Arm Wrack?
2)If I have damage to my pattern, would it be possible to transfer that damage to someone or something else, effectively healing the damage? Kinda like transferring charges between batteries, if damage was charge.
2.5)Can I do that with just Death?
3)Can I transfer momentum between two subjects?
4)Can I redirect my rotational velocity around the sun, or galaxy as a means to gain a rather high velocity quickly?

1) Yep, entropy and endings are within its purview
1.5) It would probably require a Reach, but the Condition would end when with the duration does
2) You can with a Weaving of Death
2.5) Yes, by transfering Potency damage to the target, withstood by Stamina. You can arguably do it with Weaving of Life as well, or transfer the lastest Potency turns of damage via Time's purview of change (resisted by Composure)
3 & 4) I feel like it would be a Weaving of Forces with Potency determing how much, but not sure how that translates mechanically. I also feel you are thinking of replicating some of the abilities of Accelerator from Index.