Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

[TempleBuilder]

I would say its possible to make a platonic drug that makes the subject Addicted to the mage and their Nimbus, but otherwise it seems outside its purview. Platonic Forms are mana that was shaped into the forms it takes while inhabiting tass, so their properties should be the same as those that tass may have.

Well, it may not be lethal, but this is so much better than lethal for a social legacy. Prime/Matter was so the right combo for the legacy. While we are on the topic of mind bending poisons, I’ve heard of certain chemicals that have used to keep people…pliable and open to manipulation. Like the zombie. Think it’s possible to combine Prime and Matter to add the effects of certain poisons on a victim who have been addicted in this way?

If solely using Prime magic, I’d rather make a spell that changes properties of Tass so that it becomes poisonous, or add a Reach option to Create Truth so that the created Hallow has a Feature (Signs of Sorcery) where it generates poisons that happen to be Tass… Doubtful of using Platonic Form and/or Eidolon, though.

So, do you think it’s Weaving to invest one point of mana into a thing in order to make it Tass, with a reach to add one of the properties?

[KaiserAfini]

Well, it may not be lethal, but this is so much better than lethal for a social legacy. Prime/Matter was so the right combo for the legacy. While we are on the topic of mind bending poisons, I’ve heard of certain chemicals that have used to keep people…pliable and open to manipulation. Like the zombie. Think it’s possible to combine Prime and Matter to add the effects of certain poisons on a victim who have been addicted in this way?

So, do you think it’s Weaving to invest one point of mana into a thing in order to make it Tass, with a reach to add one of the properties?

Have you considered using a Weaving of Prime and Matter to make actual poisonous words ? Make the truth poisonous to a subject, in such a way that they lie to themselves and others simply to get respite from the thing that affects them with a Toxicity of [Potency]. Now only you know when they speak the truth and what they mean. They will self destruct as they become known as pathological liars, if they do not start to believe the lies themselves. The mage will be the only confidant that reliably understands their situation, which places them in a position of trust where the final "accident" can be setup. Sounds like something the Seers would try.

[TempleBuilder]

Have you considered using a Weaving of Prime and Matter to make actual poisonous words ? Make the truth poisonous to a subject, in such a way that they lie to themselves and others simply to get respite from the thing that affects them with a Toxicity of [Potency]. Now only you know when they speak the truth and what they mean. They will self destruct as they become known as pathological liars, if they do not start to believe the lies themselves. The mage will be the only confidant that reliably understands their situation, which places them in a position of trust where the final "accident" can be setup. Sounds like something the Seers would try.

I had mostly been focusing on actual lies and poisons...but this is a fun idea! It is nicely subtle, just like what this legacy wants in it's attainments. Probably one of the higher attainments, which I'm short of. Going to use it if I ever actually write this legacy down. I actually had planned on them being a rather annoyingly survivable nameless order that works with pretty much everyone (yes, even the Lower Depths, and individual Scelesti), with members only being truly loyal to the order...hypothetically anyways. They are probably more of a mess than the Seers.

[Satchel]

Have you considered using a Weaving of Prime and Matter to make actual poisonous words ?

That's not how that works. There is no reason for Matter to be involved in this spell unless you are actually turning something into physical poison, and historically that's entailed using actual material phenomena as the raw material, not Truth.

Setting negative consequences for a particular circumstance or course of action is a Fate trick, possibly with a side of Time.

[21C Hermit]

So, do you think it’s Weaving to invest one point of mana into a thing in order to make it Tass, with a reach to add one of the properties?

Nah, I was thinking of using Prime Weaving to make already-existing Tass poisonous, and adding a Reach option to the official Create Truth (Prime Making) spell.

[TempleBuilder]

While that’s certainly one way to do things, I was wondering how one could produce Tass without a Hallow needing to be involved. Since it’s like a weird offshoot of Channel Mana and Mana Battery, I figured it would be Weaving.

[Satchel]

While that’s certainly one way to do things, I was wondering how one could produce Tass without a Hallow needing to be involved.

The trouble here being that the closest published equivalent to the 1e Create Tass spell in 2e is Platonic Form. Tass is otherwise formed based on the environment around a Hallow; Hallows are consistently part of the described process of tass formation outside of mimicking the property of "putting Mana into material form" through Platonic Form and Eidolon, and there's even some bits of text that suggest loose Mana goes to Hallows to become tass.

Platonic Form doesn't give its creations Resonance keywords or other special properties and can't create things that are edible in more than the physical-mechanical sense (and I'm doubtful that it can manage potability, either). This is one of those things where the semantic purviews of the Arcana don't fully extend to their actual capabilities so that the setting can remain coherent and resource scarcity can drive character motivations.

[orathaic]

If solely using Prime magic, I’d rather make a spell that changes properties of Tass so that it becomes poisonous, or add a Reach option to Create Truth so that the created Hallow has a Feature (Signs of Sorcery) where it generates poisons that happen to be Tass… Doubtful of using Platonic Form and/or Eidolon, though.

Not sure how the Signs of Sorcery Features work, but could you feed poisonous resonance to the Hallow and expect the tass to be imbued with that? Or is this essentially a more direct result of the same effect? (Maybe tapping a leyline associated with toxic effulent from an industrial plant... Not poison, but still going to hurt anyone who consumed it).

[21C Hermit]

Not sure how the Signs of Sorcery Features work, but could you feed poisonous resonance to the Hallow and expect the tass to be imbued with that? Or is this essentially a more direct result of the same effect? (Maybe tapping a leyline associated with toxic effulent from an industrial plant... Not poison, but still going to hurt anyone who consumed it).

Hallow Features described in SoS seem to assume that a Hollow will be naturally found with such features; it doesn’t mention at all the idea of any mage ‘hacking’ such features into a Hallow. Which is why I went with the ‘just create a new one from scratch’ spell idea.

AFAIK, you can manipulate ley lines/Resonances to imbue ley lines/Nodes with a Resonance of ‘Poisonous,’ and if that Node is placed on a Hallow, that Hallow’s Mana will indeed gain the Poisonous Resonance… but this won’t exactly be the same thing as making toxic Tass. You’d just get Mana that’s Resonant with Poison, that you could use as a Yantra for casting poison magic.

[orathaic]

Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
Can Space unlock most irises without a key?

I think only if it traverses space within the same realm. I can't really buy Space opening an Avernian Gate or something.

For some reason i thought this required Fate, not Space. But i can't find it anywhere.

The closest is Fate 2 Veiling "Fabricate Fortune" allows you to trick conditional durations or triggers, i somehow associated this with triggering keyed Irises aswell.

Is this how anyone else plays Fate?

[orathaic]

Hallow Features described in SoS seem to assume that a Hollow will be naturally found with such features; it doesn’t mention at all the idea of any mage ‘hacking’ such features into a Hallow. Which is why I went with the ‘just create a new one from scratch’ spell idea.

AFAIK, you can manipulate ley lines/Resonances to imbue ley lines/Nodes with a Resonance of ‘Poisonous,’ and if that Node is placed on a Hallow, that Hallow’s Mana will indeed gain the Poisonous Resonance… but this won’t exactly be the same thing as making toxic Tass. You’d just get Mana that’s Resonant with Poison, that you could use as a Yantra for casting poison magic.

I would assume that the precise form Tass takes depends on the resonance of the Hallow. But RAW this is neither necessary nor sufficient.

The tass depends on the Hallow's physical and symbolic characteristics.

Which are things you can change mundanely (or magically, like the spell you described). Locating a Hallow in waste disposal area of an industrial chemical plant for example (either building a plant on top of a known Hallow or creating a Hallow in an existing plant...).

Resonance likely draws spirits, and they can create/influence things, but resonant mana is different from poisonous tass.

Edit:What are the benefits/drawbacks of resonant mana?

[TempleBuilder]

I would assume that the precise form Tass takes depends on the resonance of the Hallow. But RAW this is neither necessary nor sufficient.

The tass depends on the Hallow's physical and symbolic characteristics.

Yep, and it can get weird. One example in SoS is little homunculi that you have to catch, cook, and eat.

Resonance likely draws spirits, and they can create/influence things, but resonant mana is different from poisonous tass.

Yep. Resonance is “merely” the supernatural and symbolic impressions a action or thing leaves on the world. On it’s own it’s about as effective as wall paint at effecting things. Poison resonating Tass merely has the symbolism of the bit of Mana directed towards poison. Poisonous Tass by contrast can have any resonance, but either addicts you to harvesting it, or gives you a curse. The only real guidelines for the curse option are to be weird curses and not lots of aggravated damage.

Edit:What are the benefits/drawbacks of resonant mana?

Having a +1 yantra for spells relating to the resonance in your mana pool, and having something spirits like to hang around. It’s not the most impressive thing, but it’s extremely common since Ley Lines that feed into Hallows bestow their resonance, and most Hallows have attached Ley Lines as I recall.

Edit: note, when I say wall paint, I don’t mean in a sarcastic way, since aesthetics have a very impact to people choosing and using a thing.

[Isator Levi]

Hmm, Signs of Sorcery does have an offhand reference to the idea that mages can channel mana to create their own tass. I'd assume such a thing is three dots, but then that would be the same level as the Mana Battery spell...

I guess they'd still be distinguished by the fact that the latter doesn't actually cost any Mana, it just makes an object that functions as a store for it... also, you don't need to use the Channel Mana spell to extract any of its Mana, just need to be a mage or Proximus and touch it, so that puts it one over Tass. Although I don't know, it still seems to come out generally superior to converting Mana into tass.

This is one of those things where the semantic purviews of the Arcana don't fully extend to their actual capabilities so that the setting can remain coherent and resource scarcity can drive character motivations.

But would it reduce the scarcity of tass? If it still requires the mage to provide their own Mana to its substance? There would still need to be an origin point to the Mana, you just externalize it from yourself as a reserve. Plus, if you don't have Prime as Ruling and make it indefinite, it's costing some Mana that doesn't get saved (although I'd have a notion to give such a spell a Reach option to be Lasting).

[TempleBuilder]

I guess they'd still be distinguished by the fact that the latter doesn't actually cost any Mana, it just makes an object that functions as a store for it... also, you don't need to use the Channel Mana spell to extract any of its Mana, just need to be a mage or Proximus and touch it, so that puts it one over Tass. Although I don't know, it still seems to come out generally superior to converting Mana into tass.

In this one case, creating tass is necessary, because I want to make use of one of the cursed tass options, which I doubt carries over to Mana Batteries, at least without some impressive amounts of reach.

[KaiserAfini]

In this one case, creating tass is necessary, because I want to make use of one of the cursed tass options, which I doubt carries over to Mana Batteries, at least without some impressive amounts of reach.

If I remember correctly, the Banishers book presented two options. One was to taint mana so that it would be "sluggish", it was unable to be used for Pattern Restoration and, so long as at least one point of tainted mana remained in their Pattern, the mage unable to use more than one mana per turn. Another spell created poisonous mana, which would inflict a point of lethal damage once it was spent by the mage. Perhaps those could work as a basis for an updated spell.