Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

[Suleri Drals]

I reopen the thread : (Original author : Archmage Joda)

To restart :

Q1 : Camelot was created by Imperium Rite or Practice ?

[orathaic]

Irreversible though the process typically is, a mage who joins a Legacy and disagrees with the orthodoxy always has the option to develop novel Attainments as they move forward.

I don't know where it says this in 2e but this is exactly how i would run things. You can be initiated into a legacy which works for you, and then develop a personal version of it if you don't like what you find... Alternatively every member of the legacy could have a slightly different capstone attainment, (and there might only be a few members with the 5th attainment) while still considering themselves to be one clique...

[Satchel]

1. Why is it that in mage society, the Wise are expected to join legacies? Awakening is a very personal experience, and mages are walking symbols of truth from what I understand, who all seek mysteries of their own and individualistically so (especially in regards to Ascention). And in a culture that encourages individualism, why would they be expected to join a group that explitly involves the process of (voluntarily) reforging their souls and seceding to a theory regarding where Truth can be found? While I can understand why it is not uncommon mages could find cliques they feel resonance with and that they agree with in an academic sense, it does surprise me it would be so common as to be an expectation because of how varied obsessions and the fallen world is

Because developing a new Legacy is more difficult than joining an existing one, each dot of Gnosis requires another breakthrough, and there's little point in reinventing the wheel just for the sake of complete personalization of your magical toolbox. Driven seekers after Truth though they are, most mages are not up to inventing a new magical philosophy at the stage in their spiritual development where they are expected to have aligned themselves with such a philosophy.

Forging a Legacy is a task that requires you to actually undergo the process that forms the basis for initiation — we're talking about tasks and ordeals not unlike what changelings need to go through to found a Court or attain a kith, or what werewolves need to do to earn a couple dots of Renown. Pinning your Legacy's theory down in practice requires experiential support for its Mysteries, which requires finding Mysteries that mesh with that perspective.

Also, pretenses of unworldliness notwithstanding, Legacy mentors have an incentive to get other mages to read their books and join their monthly meetings. The Diamond's jackdaw approach to magical praxis does not prevent its mentors from giving its students a nudge toward vaguely-compatible Legacies that have something to offer those mentors for the new recruits. Irreversible though the process typically is, a mage who joins a Legacy and disagrees with the orthodoxy always has the option to develop novel Attainments as they move forward.

[21C Hermit]

2 questions

1. Why is it that in mage society, the Wise are expected to join legacies? Awakening is a very personal experience, and mages are walking symbols of truth from what I understand, who all seek mysteries of their own and individualistically so (especially in regards to Ascention). And in a culture that encourages individualism, why would they be expected to join a group that explitly involves the process of (voluntarily) reforging their souls and seceding to a theory regarding where Truth can be found? While I can understand why it is not uncommon mages could find cliques they feel resonance with and that they agree with in an academic sense, it does surprise me it would be so common as to be an expectation because of how varied obsessions and the fallen world is

2. Is Obsession linked to gnosis, being mystical in of itself? Or is the fact that you gain more Obsessions via higher gnosis simply an abstraction representing how the deeper insight into a mage's path leads them to more easily see the dragons tail and seek it out in multiple things?

1.
That’s mostly a matter of perspective; Legacies are a part of actively pursuing said personal paths. You propose yourself to a Legacy you want to pursue. It’s not really something you can force on a mage.

2.
I see why it’s not both!

[Primordial newcomer]

2 questions

1. Why is it that in mage society, the Wise are expected to join legacies? Awakening is a very personal experience, and mages are walking symbols of truth from what I understand, who all seek mysteries of their own and individualistically so (especially in regards to Ascention). And in a culture that encourages individualism, why would they be expected to join a group that explitly involves the process of (voluntarily) reforging their souls and seceding to a theory regarding where Truth can be found? While I can understand why it is not uncommon mages could find cliques they feel resonance with and that they agree with in an academic sense, it does surprise me it would be so common as to be an expectation because of how varied obsessions and the fallen world is

2. Is Obsession linked to gnosis, being mystical in of itself? Or is the fact that you gain more Obsessions via higher gnosis simply an abstraction representing how the deeper insight into a mage's path leads them to more easily see the dragons tail and seek it out in multiple things?

[KaiserAfini]

Does having a high Resistance stat make self-applied Legacy Attainments like Transform Life useless? Transform Life provides mutations based on Potency, for example, which RAW means that having a high Stamina eats heavily into those bonuses. Last I checked, you can't voluntarily lower your defenses (although I may have missed something).

Or is that one of the things you can reasonably handwave for a Legacy?

Before dice are rolled for spellcasting, the caster must consider if her subject can Withstand her magic, as it could affect the dice pool and outcome of the casting. The subject of a spell can always choose not to Withstand a spell, but she must consciously choose to do so as a reflexive action

Yep, you can choose not to Withstand, but its all or nothing, no partial Withstands. Which means that a Thyrsus can cast Shapechanging on a Sleepwalker and, since its duration primary, they can choose to Withstand the spell until necessary, giving them a wolf or t-rex form with an "on/off switch".

[Cauthon]

Does having a high Resistance stat make self-applied Legacy Attainments like Transform Life useless? Transform Life provides mutations based on Potency, for example, which RAW means that having a high Stamina eats heavily into those bonuses. Last I checked, you can't voluntarily lower your defenses (although I may have missed something).

Or is that one of the things you can reasonably handwave for a Legacy?

[Isator Levi]

Dumb question. Mage uses a Life Ruling spell to give a Sleepwalker the Striking Looks Merit. It doesn't make them unrecognizable, just adjusts the details to make them more attractive / intimidating / pitiable / what have you.

Per Creative Thaumaturgy guidelines, Ruling can increase an existing Merit, but out of all of them I'd feel as though giving a person Striking Looks would be Perfecting (or Fraying) at least.

Does this trigger Dissonance if a Sleeper who knows the Sleepwalker well sees them during the spell's Duration?

I think Striking Looks could come across as just an alteration in a person's disposition and how they clean up (or not), not dramatic enough a change to trigger Dissonance.

[KaiserAfini]

Dumb question. Mage uses a Life Ruling spell to give a Sleepwalker the Striking Looks Merit. It doesn't make them unrecognizable, just adjusts the details to make them more attractive / intimidating / pitiable / what have you. Does this trigger Dissonance if a Sleeper who knows the Sleepwalker well sees them during the spell's Duration?

Depends on whether its logically possible. If it is voice related, like having a more energetic, inviting or terrifying tone, then sure, maybe they practiced it. It could manifest as mannerisms complimenting their dress style, making them behave in an elegant manner or walk with a marked amount of confidence, that could have been rehearsed in front of a mirror. But if it is a strong cosmetic difference, then it wouldn't make sense if they didn't have time to recover from plastic surgery, and it would not justify how sometimes they quickly go back to their default look. Maybe they used some movie quality disguises, but that takes time and effort to do, do they seem like someone who would bother ? Paying a professional is expensive, do they have that kind of money, would they invest it in this, do they even know such a person ? If not, then Dissonance hits, the observer suffers the stress of a possible Breaking Point and then Quiescence means those inconsistencies are rationalized away anyway.

[Cauthon]

Dumb question. Mage uses a Life Ruling spell to give a Sleepwalker the Striking Looks Merit. It doesn't make them unrecognizable, just adjusts the details to make them more attractive / intimidating / pitiable / what have you. Does this trigger Dissonance if a Sleeper who knows the Sleepwalker well sees them during the spell's Duration?

[Satchel]

Followup question - does Psychic Projection count as being a scrying window for the purposes of determining Reach? That is, would you need to pay one Reach or two in order to cast spells at the projection's "sensory" range?

It counts as you being there, because you're there. You're not occupying your body while you're projected.

Also, can you enter the higher stories of buildings while in Twilight? RAW in Mage would imply that even building floors are "as solid as fog", but the fact that you don't drift downward into the core of the earth establishes some common-sense concessions to utility.

Same page:

Movement through Twilight roughly corresponds to that of the material world, even though there is no gravity, wind, or pressure. Flight is not possible unless appropriate for the entity’s form; a fiery-winged Goetia might take to the sky, but a clattering, rusting spirit of metal will stick to the material terrain.

Equivalent section from the bluebook core:

If no ghostly structures get in the way, ephemeral beings in Twilight can move at a walking pace in any direction. Gravity has no sway, though Twilit beings can only truly “fly” if it’s appropriate for their form — most hug the material terrain. A ghost could walk up the side of a tower block, for example, but couldn’t then float through midair to the next tower.

It's a matter of imagery. If there's floor or ground to stand on, you can stand on it whether you're material or ephemeral.

[Isator Levi]

In your opinion, is there a viable conjunctive for Psychic Projection that would allow for an avatar without physical substance? Spirit maybe, replicating the Image Manifestation?

I think that, by default, it precludes such a thing when it's specified to take a form of lacking an ephemeral body.

That being said, being an Adept of Mind means you're both able to give people Hallucinations and cast a combined spell.

[Cauthon]

I feel as though that getting a Forces conjunctive effect is predicated on it already being a spell about information transmission, whereas I don't find the creation of such an image to be tied so organically to the premise of Psychic Projection. A mage who can Rule Forces can still shape light into an image of themselves while in that intangible state, but I'd think it's an entirely separate spell.

In your opinion, is there a viable conjunctive for Psychic Projection that would allow for an avatar without physical substance? Spirit maybe, replicating the Image Manifestation?

[Isator Levi]

I feel as though that getting a Forces conjunctive effect is predicated on it already being a spell about information transmission, whereas I don't find the creation of such an image to be tied so organically to the premise of Psychic Projection. A mage who can Rule Forces can still shape light into an image of themselves while in that intangible state, but I'd think it's an entirely separate spell.

[Cauthon]

Soul Windows?

One of the Soul Stone spells from page 90 of Signs of Sorcery. Basically, it allows you to see or hear through a soul stone you've created. Reach allows you to see and hear at the same time, and split your perception across multiple soul stones. The Forces conjunctive effect allows you to speak through the stone or even generate a hologram. So you could use it to make a holo-drone like the Illusive Man had on Thessia, but if the intent is to remain sequestered from danger its kinda counter-productive to send in a physical piece of your soul.