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  • Suleri Drals
    started a topic Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

    Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

    I reopen the thread : (Original author : Archmage Joda)

    To restart :

    Q1 : Camelot was created by Imperium Rite or Practice ?

  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Seraph Kitty View Post
    But I’d allow (or require) some other yantra that lend their power from some essential quality in the yantra itself - like using resonance from the environment.
    I don't have the impression that's a thing, not when even Demesnes are described as functioning as Yantras based on their semiotics. I mean, the general description of Yantras says that they don't function based on any kind of inherent power, just aids in visualising the Imago.

    I think Concentration and Mantra make better cases, but I'd find them dependent on how one envisions the mind of a Supernal being working, particularly as it relates to casting magic. I'm not really sold on Persona.

    Leave a comment:


  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Okay, actual question. The rules state that Supernal beings use their Arcana in the same manner as the Awakened, but do people think that should exclude the use of Yantras? Nothing specifically says that they can't as far as I know, but I feel with that restriction you get both character emphasis (that enabling the imago with semiotic shortcuts is both unnecessary when they intuit the Supernal and not possible from that mindset) and keeping some things within reason when their casting already rolls such high traits that can be boosted by spending Mana and gets unlimited Reach.
    Feels like Concentration, Mantra (High Speech), and Persona could be used by Supernals. But for others, yeah, sounds reasonable to disallow them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seraph Kitty
    replied
    I agree that many yantras wouldn’t make sense, especially from the semiotic shortcut point of view. But I’d allow (or require) some other yantra that lend their power from some essential quality in the yantra itself - like using resonance from the environment. I’d probably still require temporal and sympathetic yantras where applicable. Although it’d be totally in theme to summon a Supernal for the boon of getting a sympathetic yantra that’s otherwise inaccessible - but I’d have that be it’s own Trial, wholly separate from *using* it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Okay, actual question. The rules state that Supernal beings use their Arcana in the same manner as the Awakened, but do people think that should exclude the use of Yantras? Nothing specifically says that they can't as far as I know, but I feel with that restriction you get both character emphasis (that enabling the imago with semiotic shortcuts is both unnecessary when they intuit the Supernal and not possible from that mindset) and keeping some things within reason when their casting already rolls such high traits that can be boosted by spending Mana and gets unlimited Reach.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Does anybody else have a collection of Mage books that is only a few items shy of being complete?

    I just ask because after more than a decade of getting them, I finally got a copy of Guardians of the Veil (and The Free Council is on the way).

    Leave a comment:


  • Neos01
    replied
    Originally posted by AutumnKing View Post
    Mages always know when their spells are clashing; do you think a clash would awaken a sleeping mage?
    I think, in the same way as other physical stimulus, but a clash has a short duration.
    Think of it as your cat that pokes your face to awaken you.

    Leave a comment:


  • AutumnKing
    replied
    Mages always know when their spells are clashing; do you think a clash would awaken a sleeping mage?

    Leave a comment:


  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
    Is there a legacy based around increasing your ability to pursue mysteries, at a major cost to your health, unless you actively pursue mysteries? I have a idea about a new legacy, but I want to see if it’s treading new ground. Yes, I will be finishing my current one first before I begin a new one.
    IIRC, the Unforgotten Scions have a similar mindset, but not abilities like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    Is there a legacy based around increasing your ability to pursue mysteries, at a major cost to your health, unless you actively pursue mysteries? I have a idea about a new legacy, but I want to see if it’s treading new ground. Yes, I will be finishing my current one first before I begin a new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
    edit: is there a place in the temenos representing the concept of self like the mainspring represents the concept of sentience?
    The Wellspring is a weird recurring phenomenon in the Anima Mundi. You can find increasingly narrow subsets of the collective idea-space for just about any concept in the Temenos, but it's not necessarily going to bring weird earth-shattering concepts into play like the freaky shit that lives in the Dreamtime — Temenotic spaces and their resident goetia may be influential, but their influence is largely confined to the mental and social spheres.

    Leave a comment:


  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    Has anyone done a legacy based around the Aeons? Specifically Lilith?
    On the topic of legacies did anyone finish converting illuminated path to 2e? Would illuminated path be the same thing as tamers of light?
    edit: is there a place in the temenos representing the concept of self like the mainspring represents the concept of sentience?
    Last edited by TempleBuilder; 04-12-2021, 10:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
    Thank you for answering!
    lets go with the bargains as a example, does a huntsman have to obey both spring and summers bargains at the same time with this spell? Hedgegates close after a season, does this spell effect them? does the year and a day type stuff get muddled or otherwise disturbed?
    Well I've not yet read Changeling Second Edition, but on a preliminary basis I would think that if a being is targeted with effects that would blend periods in time such as that (either directly or coming into an area of effect), it's valid enough but might have to contend first with a potentially powerful Withstand rating and then with with any Clash of Wills when a supernatural power contrary to it comes up. I think that would be a particular case when it's a matter of being constrained by the season.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    Would it be correct in saying then that essence is refined resonance?
    I guess that's one way to look at it.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    The nimbus always stuck me as similar to resonance, as both provide dice bonuses to things in their themes.
    Well, I think when it comes to Resonance flavoured mana, functioning as a Yantra means that the bonus isn't quite inherent to the mana itself so much as semiotics of the sensations it conveys aiding in visualising the imago.

    And I think of Nimbus Tilt as simply systemizing how that aura has always been described as conveying certain sensations. Like, there have always been examples of things like "people feel an improved sense of direction", it's just that it is now represented in an actual dice bonus to something like navigation.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    I'm just wondering if it can use influence: mana to do odd things, might be a nice mystery.
    I think as an Influence it still needs to target a Resonance, which requires it to be a more substantive thing than a supernatural energy trait. I could see being constructed of mana providing some unusual benefits besides, but the Influence still needs to be something like Wolves, Machines, Fire, Motivation, those sorts of things.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    I meant the spell actually. Although if pattern restoration can't, I would be inclined to say no to the spell.
    Right, of course. With the description of how it is obviously magical by default, I envision Platonic Forms as looking kind of like Dr. Strange glowing wireframe things. I think they can perform physical functions, but lack something like chemical properties. It's mana given shape that can substitute for objects, but still composed of mana.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    Would that not be the same as killing a supernal entity levels of hubris?
    I wouldn't think it's that severe. An Eidoform is not an actual thing of the Supernal, just about as close an approximation as can be. An entity actually came out of the Supernal, carries some of the substance of its function with it, and being consumed by the Abyss is a greater damage.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    Neat! I'm just looking for opinions on this anyway, especially since wisdom does not equal goodness.
    I at least think the voice of the Guardians in the Diamond is a big part of why Wisdom is held as something to aspire to, a counterweight to Silver Ladder ideals that might think of such a thing as only another constraint on the right of Imperium.

    But no, suggesting that any one is notably more Wise would ultimately only convey a personal bias.

    Leave a comment:


  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    Thank you for answering!
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post


    Well, what do you mean by properties of the seasons? Weaving is able to add in elements of different parts of a timeline, at least.



    Can you be more specific about what parts of those things you think might have an interaction?
    Well, seasons seem to be a property of time, at least I think so. I'm asking because I am stumped as to what happens when it is simultaneously multiple seasons at once. lets go with the bargains as a example, does a huntsman have to obey both spring and summers bargains at the same time with this spell? Hedgegates close after a season, does this spell effect them? does the year and a day type stuff get muddled or otherwise disturbed?
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Nimbus is the mystical aura of a mage symbolizing their qualities as a willworker. It comes in the Immediate Nimbus which is visible to Mage Sight when they cast spells and inflicts a Tilt based on its qualities, the Signature which is their characteristic feel on subjects spells were cast on, and the Long-Term which causes uncanny occurrences to accumulate around the subjects of a mage's sympathetic connections (although adhering to a Shadow Name limits that to only things connected to the mage identity).

    Essence is the mystical energy that powers spirits and werewolves. It is acquired from loci (kind of an equivalent to Hallows) and appropriate kinds of feeding.

    Resonance is a kind of mystical conceptual quality attached to a person, place or thing that most determines which kinds of spirits can feed around it (as well as having some implications for fettering and possession). It can be channelled in the ley lines that Prime can manipulate, and when it colours the tone of Hallows results in mana that can act as a Yantra for appropriate spells. Murder resonance lets a murder spirit draw Essence, and if it's in mana can add a dice bonus for casting killing spells.
    Would it be correct in saying then that essence is refined resonance? The nimbus always stuck me as similar to resonance, as both provide dice bonuses to things in their themes.
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I wouldn't really be inclined to it, but if a player had a compelling idea that the Storyteller was on board with I'd say that's in the spirit of the game. For some of those, I think a Perfected time period is conceptual in a way that most magic doesn't really touch on.
    Time is general throws me off, so it's interesting to see if anyone had some idea on what that might do
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I guess with Spirit 5 + Prime 4 you could produce such an entity, although there's going to be issues if it wants to feed off of mana, which is scarce enough for mages as it is.
    I'm just wondering if it can use influence: mana to do odd things, might be a nice mystery.

    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Well, Perfecting would be the Practice, and I think any Subtle Arcanum can be suitable for it, although I'd say an improved Amnion should increase the impairment.
    I might use that for my legacy then

    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I presume you're referring to Eidoforms, in which case, sure, if one takes the form of food there's no obstacle to eating it. They're still actual examples of what they are. It's just a real waste for something so rare and valuable.
    I meant the spell actually. Although if pattern restoration can't, I would be inclined to say no to the spell. Even I am not crazy enough to eat a Eidoform! Would that not be the same as killing a supernal entity levels of hubris?



    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    That's a difficult question to answer when many different characters can have their own standards of Wisdom that are correct to them, as well as how a lot of the philosophies of the Orders are just as much impediments to Wisdom as facilitators of it.

    Like, the Guardians of the Veil are an Order with maybe the most direct provisions to encourage taking personal responsibility and casting with the utmost care, while also holding an ideal that if haste or morally dubious actions need to be undertaken, better the burden fall upon them than be on other mages.
    Neat! I'm just looking for opinions on this anyway, especially since wisdom does not equal goodness.
    Last edited by TempleBuilder; 04-12-2021, 03:16 PM.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
    1) Can a matter unveiling allow one to receive tactile information from a object, ie can a amputee regain their sense of touch with a prosthetic?
    Seems reasonable enough.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    2) Can time weaving weave the properties of all the seasons together?
    2.5) If cast on a tree, what would happen?
    Well, what do you mean by properties of the seasons? Weaving is able to add in elements of different parts of a timeline, at least.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    2.75) How would that interact with changeling seasonal court bargains, oaths, and hedgeways?
    Can you be more specific about what parts of those things you think might have an interaction?

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    3) What is the difference between the nimbus, resonance, and essence?
    Nimbus is the mystical aura of a mage symbolizing their qualities as a willworker. It comes in the Immediate Nimbus which is visible to Mage Sight when they cast spells and inflicts a Tilt based on its qualities, the Signature which is their characteristic feel on subjects spells were cast on, and the Long-Term which causes uncanny occurrences to accumulate around the subjects of a mage's sympathetic connections (although adhering to a Shadow Name limits that to only things connected to the mage identity).

    Essence is the mystical energy that powers spirits and werewolves. It is acquired from loci (kind of an equivalent to Hallows) and appropriate kinds of feeding.

    Resonance is a kind of mystical conceptual quality attached to a person, place or thing that most determines which kinds of spirits can feed around it (as well as having some implications for fettering and possession). It can be channelled in the ley lines that Prime can manipulate, and when it colours the tone of Hallows results in mana that can act as a Yantra for appropriate spells. Murder resonance lets a murder spirit draw Essence, and if it's in mana can add a dice bonus for casting killing spells.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    4) Does hone the perfected form REALLY need matter for it's forces option? This seems like a basic function of the perfecting practice.
    I would think of it in terms of a particular alchemical kind of perfecting that is more native to the Matter Arcanum than it is to Forces, but I doubt anything breaks if you rule what makes more sense to you.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    5) Can you use hone the perfected form on things other than matter and forces? Like a perfected sympathetic connection, or a perfected season, or time of day, or a perfected nimbus, or perfected mana.
    I wouldn't really be inclined to it, but if a player had a compelling idea that the Storyteller was on board with I'd say that's in the spirit of the game. For some of those, I think a Perfected time period is conceptual in a way that most magic doesn't really touch on.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    6) Is it possible to make a mana spirit?
    I guess with Spirit 5 + Prime 4 you could produce such an entity, although there's going to be issues if it wants to feed off of mana, which is scarce enough for mages as it is.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    7) is there a good resource for understanding spirits, spirit ecologies, and the shadow that's still relevant for 2e mage?
    I understand the general concepts in Book of Spirits and Predators holds up, and Werewolf Second Edition has a suitably elaborate explanation of what's going on there with a few sample spirits.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    8) What would the the practices and Arcanum for a spell that increases the potency of the Amnion?
    Well, Perfecting would be the Practice, and I think any Subtle Arcanum can be suitable for it, although I'd say an improved Amnion should increase the impairment.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    9) What is the point of spell potions?
    A mage can prepare a good spell in safety and where they aren't under pressure or risk of interruption to be used later (and if they don't have the Time to Hang it), or else it's a way of lending mages the use of a spell they couldn't cast themselves which is a bit more accessible than Imbuing.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    10) Can a plutonic form provide nutritional value?
    I presume you're referring to Eidoforms, in which case, sure, if one takes the form of food there's no obstacle to eating it. They're still actual examples of what they are. It's just a real waste for something so rare and valuable.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    10.5) Can can pattern restoration remove hunger?
    I don't think it should.

    Originally posted by TempleBuilder
    11) Which order do you think has the highest wisdom on average?
    That's a difficult question to answer when many different characters can have their own standards of Wisdom that are correct to them, as well as how a lot of the philosophies of the Orders are just as much impediments to Wisdom as facilitators of it.

    Like, the Guardians of the Veil are an Order with maybe the most direct provisions to encourage taking personal responsibility and casting with the utmost care, while also holding an ideal that if haste or morally dubious actions need to be undertaken, better the burden fall upon them than be on other mages.

    Leave a comment:

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