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Scale factor - using AoE to affect subjects

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  • Scale factor - using AoE to affect subjects

    So, here's the short of it: the Cabal is about to go after someone or something that seems to have a habit of playing with souls like a cat does with yarn. So the Moros decides that it's better to be prepared rather than the alternative, so wants to cast Soul Armor on the whole Cabal. He uses "arms reach" for the scale factor, and everyone huddles up, so they all are affected by it. The question is, would the effect remain in that spot of their Sanctum, where it was cast, or does it affect the subjects that were in that small area and thus travel with them?
    The bottom line, besides the specific case, is whether a Mage can be smart about the application of their magic and factors or whether they have to stick more to the specific options (I want to affect subjects? I must use the subjects steps).

    Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn't find it >.<

    P.S: Man, do I love this game

  • #2
    AoE spells only affects subjects in the area while they are inside the area (and even new subjects if they enter the area). In this case you want to cast on them specifically as subjects. You could either increase the number of subjects (which requires either a sizeable penalty or a Reach), or you could cast on everyone individually and just relinquish the spells so it doesn't take up spell slots. Less control, but would require individual dispellations if that's something the villain is prone to attempt.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Isn't it strange that I can target a space when that isn't the real subject of the spell? In any case, thanks for the prompt answer!!!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ehkesoyo View Post
        Isn't it strange that I can target a space when that isn't the real subject of the spell? In any case, thanks for the prompt answer!!!
        The space is the emanation point for subjects to be affected. Think of it more as creating a field that only certain things can benefit from.

        A related question: Can the point of emanation for the AoE, be a subject? In that case, maybe to expand the area to a few feet/yards from the Mage, and their allies just make sure to stay close.


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

          The space is the emanation point for subjects to be affected. Think of it more as creating a field that only certain things can benefit from.

          A related question: Can the point of emanation for the AoE, be a subject? In that case, maybe to expand the area to a few feet/yards from the Mage, and their allies just make sure to stay close.
          no. Some people seem to homebrew it so that you can do this and have moving aoe spells but thats not RAW.

          By default the area needs to be within touch range like all spells, but you can spend a reach to make it sensory then the area can be anywhere within sensory range, and even extend outside line of sight because of it as long as part of it is in sensory range.

          An example is that you can have a house sized area effect spell and touch the house to cast the spell on everybody inside that house or extend it to sensory and just need to view the house to cast the spell.
          Last edited by totalgit; 02-19-2018, 06:59 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by totalgit View Post

            no. Some people seem to homebrew it so that you can do this and have moving aoe spells but thats not RAW.

            By default the area needs to be within touch range like all spells, but you can spend a reach to make it sensory then the area can be anywhere within sensory range, and even extend outside line of sight because of it as long as part of it is in sensory range.

            An example is that you can have a house sized area effect spell and touch the house to cast the spell on everybody inside that house or extend it to sensory and just need to view the house to cast the spell.
            And if someone moves the house? Is the spell anchored to the house or the space that the house occupied relative to the earth?


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by totalgit View Post
              By default the area needs to be within touch range like all spells, but you can spend a reach to make it sensory then the area can be anywhere within sensory range, and even extend outside line of sight because of it as long as part of it is in sensory range.
              No I meant the center of the AoE being being "me". If it is 10 feet, it affects everything within 10 feet of me. If I move, it continues to affect everything within 10 feet of me.

              Originally posted by Tessie View Post

              And if someone moves the house? Is the spell anchored to the house or the space that the house occupied relative to the earth?
              The Earth is moving too, after all.


              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ehkesoyo View Post
                Isn't it strange that I can target a space when that isn't the real subject of the spell? In any case, thanks for the prompt answer!!!
                Think of it like summoning a fire, the fire exists in a space and anyone who enters that space gets burned. When they leave they may still have the effects of having been burned but they stop being burned. Same works for an AOE spell, you create an area (or field) of Soul Armor and anything in it gets Soul Armor while within it; if there were any Lasting effects (such as burn damage) then those would persist.

                Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                No I meant the center of the AoE being being "me". If it is 10 feet, it affects everything within 10 feet of me. If I move, it continues to affect everything within 10 feet of me.



                The Earth is moving too, after all.

                ​The first part ( that you didn't quote) of totalgit s response is still true. By RAW you target a space with an AOE spell, not any other pattern (such as 'me', 'you', or 'an object').


                (he/him/his)


                Backer #2010

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
                  ​The first part ( that you didn't quote) of totalgit s response is still true. By RAW you target a space with an AOE spell, not any other pattern (such as 'me', 'you', or 'an object').
                  Didn't exist when I first pressed "Quote".

                  Regardless, how about "the point in space 1 Inch above my head", treating one's head as a vehicle. Do AoEs rush past on planes or speeding trains?


                  Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                  Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by totalgit View Post
                    no. Some people seem to homebrew it so that you can do this and have moving aoe spells but thats not RAW.
                    The AoE application of a spell doesn't say the area has to be fixed to one location, it's not a houserule, just a different reading of the rules as presented.

                    Vent0 A moving aura effect should be possible, I've never had a problem with it.

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                    • #11
                      Until a FAQ clarifies it, then its open to interpretation really.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                        Didn't exist when I first pressed "Quote".

                        Regardless, how about "the point in space 1 Inch above my head", treating one's head as a vehicle. Do AoEs rush past on planes or speeding trains?
                        You could define a point 1 inch above your head for the spell, the spell would then be centered on that spot and have the X scale depending on spell factors. But i think that its then fixed at that spot for the duration of the spell. If you move your head the spell doesnt move with you but stays centered to the spot that was 1" above your head before you moved it.

                        Aoe spells inside containers are tricky, you can either a) define the area inside a train or b) define a area the train just happens to be in. (same with the house example above).
                        a) means the spell stays within the train as the train moves along since the spell it hasnt moved/changed area in relation to the train or b) the train moves out of the area and everything on the train no longer is effected by the spell.

                        It comes down to how the mage imagines the imago/area. Either options are viable but each has pro's and con's.

                        ie: A) "The entire area of the trains carriage is filled with a deadly gas aoe spell", or b) the gps coords x,y,z in a large room sized (train carriage size?) area is also full of deadly gas, it just so happens a train carriage is inside those coords.

                        Either the train moves out of the area and out of the gas or the gas moves out of the area on the train. if the latter the gas is still within the same area it was before. (ie the train carriage)
                        Last edited by totalgit; 02-20-2018, 03:07 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                          A related question: Can the point of emanation for the AoE, be a subject? In that case, maybe to expand the area to a few feet/yards from the Mage, and their allies just make sure to stay close.
                          I feel like the answer that's honest to the fiction and the way the supernatural tends to work in ChroD is "not without some sort of concrete boundary."

                          You can't expand a spell's boundaries after you condense them, and magic doesn't work on pure abstraction, so most viable mobile AoEs are going to be confined to some sort of container rather than a notionally or numerically precise (but visually indistinct) radius surrounding the subject, at least as far as spells whose format isn't "this target's relationship with these things in the region of the Area Scale is altered thus" are concerned.

                          A magic circle is suitably definite, as is the space underneath an umbrella or a canopy, but "further out from the mage than arm's reach" is probably going to call for some demarcation to accomplish.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • #14
                            That's probably a good call. Theme first. Rules second. If my player is trying to get around the rules in a non-thematic way, I would say no. But if the mobile AoE seems thematic, I would allow it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              I feel like the answer that's honest to the fiction and the way the supernatural tends to work in ChroD is "not without some sort of concrete boundary."

                              You can't expand a spell's boundaries after you condense them, and magic doesn't work on pure abstraction, so most viable mobile AoEs are going to be confined to some sort of container rather than a notionally or numerically precise (but visually indistinct) radius surrounding the subject, at least as far as spells whose format isn't "this target's relationship with these things in the region of the Area Scale is altered thus" are concerned.

                              A magic circle is suitably definite, as is the space underneath an umbrella or a canopy, but "further out from the mage than arm's reach" is probably going to call for some demarcation to accomplish.
                              So, an AoE can remain fixed relative to a space/object, if the AoE can be contained in said space. One could affect a portion or even the entire interior of a car or train, but cannot create an AoE bigger than or extending outside the car/train that travels with it.


                              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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