Unmaking Spells

[Nickpire84]

Good afternoon,

I tried searching the forums to see if this had been answered already but didn't find it if so.

In Mage 2E, it says Unmaking spells are always resisted by Withstand. But when it comes to an exceptional success, you can bypass Withstand entirely and with a Rote you can get an exceptional success with 3 instead of 5.

My question is how does this work exactly? If someone tries to destroy someone else with whatever Arcana 5 version of an Unmaking spell, do they always add Withstand since it's an auto-kill or if the attacker gets 3+ successes on a Rote, is it curtains for the target?

I know there's dispellation, Prime, etc which can factor in when mages fight one another. Just seeking some clarification for how the system is intended to work.

Thank you!

[Dave Brookshaw]

If the mage gets 3 successes with a Praxis (not a rote) and chooses to bypass the withstand on an unmaking spell... The spell isn't withstood and the subject likely dies. Depends what the mage is Unmaking.

[lnodiv]

In Mage 2E, it says Unmaking spells are always resisted by Withstand.

This line is misunderstood all the time.
It's not saying that no matter what, any kind of Unmaking spell is always Withstood, circumstances be damned.

It's saying that, as a general rule (for Creative Thaum and published spells), Unmaking spells are Withstood. It's how Unmaking works.
Anything that bypasses or fucks with Withstand is still going to function normally.

[Nickpire84]

Thank you both. I appreciate the clarification .

[HarbingerLeo]

If straight up murder is your goal and you have the ability to make or unmake things? You can bypass withstand in another way...

Death - Rot the ground under them into dust or mush by 'making' death. Then unmake death to seal it over them and entomb them.

Fate - Ever seen the movie 'Final Destination'? Just have to tilt your target to the environment rather then someone specifically.

Forces - Unmake the heat in the air, and flash freeze it into solid ice. You don't even have to go to absolute zero. Inverting that to incinerate from the inside out with heated air in their next breath works too.

Life - A simple mosquito with a fast acting toxin will work.

Mater - Destroy (or massively multiply) the air around them. Sudden concussion force from massive over pressure or under pressure will do the job. Transmuting the air around them into a solid or toxin works at a lower dot level.

Mind and Prime can be spectacularly deadly, but their making and unmaking don't directly touch the physical world.

Space - Really a 3 or 4 dot teleportation affect bringing in magma from the heart of a active volcano you web-weaved a connection should do. Getting even close to fresh hot rock is enough heat to kill.

Spirit - On call or custom made spirits with unlimited essence can do pretty much anything...

Time - Not directly lethal, but you can just freeze them or give your self all the time in the world to do whatever you like.