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Are Mages allowed to talk about magic?

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  • #16
    Can't remember the episode, but the female characters were having romantic problems, so Phoebe lead them in a magical ritual to get better boyfriends, and started a fire in the apartment. No actual supernatural events, but the parallel to Mage was funny. Taking it a little more seriously, having half the cast of a network sitcom try to do actual magic is part of the Generation X 1990s culture that the World of Darkness itself came from. I can't really see the Modern Family people doing that.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Gareth3 View Post
      Can't remember the episode, but the female characters were having romantic problems, so Phoebe lead them in a magical ritual to get better boyfriends, and started a fire in the apartment. No actual supernatural events, but the parallel to Mage was funny. Taking it a little more seriously, having half the cast of a network sitcom try to do actual magic is part of the Generation X 1990s culture that the World of Darkness itself came from. I can't really see the Modern Family people doing that.
      Oh yeah, I think I remember that now. It even got them dates with 3 firemen iirc.

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      • #18
        Now just saying that “ Hey, magic exists!” Very loudly without actually exposing anyone to magic or giving definitive proof isn’t likely to get the Gusrdian’s attention. Exposing truths about the nature of magic or the Pentacle , though still without actually using magic, will definitely draw attention and probably end your existence due to angry/ concerned mages wanting to be safe and prevent something from happening that does engender Paradox

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        • #19
          A carny barker could get paid to shout "Hey, magic exists!". A professional stage magician also goes paid by people to make them, for at least a moment, stop disbelieving in magic. A mage could make a very good living telling everyone magic is real, and even preforming small bits the real stuff on stage! In front of hundreds of sleepers even maybe without a single paradox.

          As above though, I think it's when you try to talk about the specifics of what awaken magic is or it's history you get in trouble.
          Last edited by HarbingerLeo; 10-19-2018, 08:14 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by HarbingerLeo View Post
            A carny barker could get paid to shout "Hey, magic exists!". A professional stage magician also goes paid by people to make them, for at least a moment, stop disbelieving in magic. A mage could make a very good living telling everyone magic is real, and even preforming small bits the real stuff on stage! In front of hundreds of sleepers even maybe without a single paradox.
            Any Sleeper witnesses to Awakened magic rationalize it away as a mundane occurrence and suffer breaking points. Even if the Mage isn't generating paradox they'll still run into trouble with the Guardians of the Veil or the Seers of the Throne.

            Using Legacy Attainments would not suffer the same issue, but would probably get the Mage on a watch list.


            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Korogra View Post
              Now just saying that “ Hey, magic exists!” Very loudly without actually exposing anyone to magic or giving definitive proof isn’t likely to get the Gusrdian’s attention. Exposing truths about the nature of magic or the Pentacle , though still without actually using magic, will definitely draw attention and probably end your existence due to angry/ concerned mages wanting to be safe and prevent something from happening that does engender Paradox
              Makes sense. Isn't it in the core rulebook somewhere that the pentacle, and especially the guardians and mysterium, are concerned that even speaking about how magic works in front of sleepers in anything other than high speech could taint the supernal with the abyss? I swear I read that somewhere. Though I may be thinking of the first edition rulebook.

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              • #22
                Some mages do worry about that. Also, Awakening requires a genuine revelatory confrontation with the Lie, so telling people that magic exists (even Sleepwalkers who can see it safely) has a small but measurable effect on their chances of Awakening - many Pentacle mages seriously worry that by allowing Sleepwalkers into the Orders they're reducing the future mage population.


                Dave Brookshaw

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                • #23
                  Something else to bear in mind, Awakening being fairly heavily based on real life magical practices means you can buy a book off Amazon that more or less explains how magic works.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Michael View Post
                    Something else to bear in mind, Awakening being fairly heavily based on real life magical practices means you can buy a book off Amazon that more or less explains how magic works.
                    Isn't that what the guardians' labyrinths are for?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dragonchild View Post

                      Isn't that what the guardians' labyrinths are for?
                      I though they were supposed to filter out the unworthy and prevent them from Awakening by giving them false knowledge?

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                      • #26
                        One moment. If saying a sleep knowing about magic hurt it (and it only matter if they believe magic is untrue when seeing it), wouldn't the awakening believing they're hurting sleepers by revealing magic be a self fulfilling prophesy.

                        Would doing a apocalypse (event not spell) level reveal hurt a bunch of people, but also make magic a public forum even? It would do harm, but the harm would be finite. After that magic couldn't be harmed any more as it's now a pubically accepted belief. Everyone would become sleep walkers (or be cripple and/or dead). You could summon the whole of the supper natural world. Everyone would freak out, but not dissonance and quintessence freak out.

                        Like cutting a caner out. It does the body harm cutting into it, but left alone the cancer would have do all that harm anyway and more.

                        Edit: It sets up a point where doing something might be fatal, but doing nothing is 100% fatal.
                        Last edited by HarbingerLeo; 10-26-2018, 03:07 PM.

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                        • #27
                          HarbingerLeo the damage done to magic by people knowing about it is infinite, it’s not based on just what people believe.

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                          • #28
                            The of doing a apocalypse would be triage. It would do a lot of damage, but anyone left standing would be a sleepwalker. After that 'sleepers' are either dead, insane beyond realizing their own hands, or don't exist anymore. Sleepwalkers don't do damage to my knowledge. No more slowly bleeding to death.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by HarbingerLeo View Post
                              The of doing a apocalypse would be triage. It would do a lot of damage, but anyone left standing would be a sleepwalker. After that 'sleepers' are either dead, insane beyond realizing their own hands, or don't exist anymore. Sleepwalkers don't do damage to my knowledge. No more slowly bleeding to death.
                              That isn’t how you make Sleepwalkers. Even if it was, all their children would be Sleepers. You’re just arguing to create a rolling apocalypse for every generation and fuck the Sleepers who have no say in the matter.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by HarbingerLeo View Post
                                (and it only matter if they believe magic is untrue when seeing it)
                                This part is the problem. Unlike in Mage: the Ascension, the difference between a Sleeper and a Sleepwalker in Mage: the Awakening isn't simply a matter of a strong belief or outlook. You have this part backwards: seeing supernal sorcery makes sleepers disbelieve and forget about it. They have no choice in the matter and it has nothing to do with their psychology or how plausible they think it was. It happens because of humanity's Sleeping Curse and the sympathy of the Abyss that touches each mortal soul.

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