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Mechanics of Delayed Paradox

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Johnny Awesome View Post
    There is no mechanical justification for post-casting Paradox rolls.
    Again, house rule. I do not claim the book advocates rolling Paradox at any other point than when casting the spell initially.

    I believe the intent behind the rules was for Demesnes to be used for self-buffing for research (and then dropping those spells before leaving) and spells to make the inside of the Demesne more secure. I imagine the rule about sleepers being present during the duration is more of a "if the GM knows a sleeper will intrude", say, because a rival has sent sleepers specifically to screw with the mage. Largely, any spell that doesn't require Paradox will live in table time for all of "OK, I'm done buffing up, I start scrutinizing/researching" and a couple of dice rolls.

    When a spell cast in a Demesne does cause Paradox, this could be a clue to the mage that something is up, and a Mystery to investigate.

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    • #17
      It's fine to house rule it, of course, but I don't think it was the design intent at all.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
        Heck, if it was the latter then we wouldn't have Dissonance, you'd just roll for Paradox every time a Sleeper popped up around magic.

        That statement changed my mind. Initially I agreed with Simon and intended on handling this situation as he has described, party because I agreed with his interpretation of the meaning of "duration" and cause I thought it would be thematically fun to be walking down the street and suddenly OMGWTFPARADOXOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW. But this statement from Mrmdubois actually changed my mind. I do wonder though if the ability of cast spells with utterly insane amounts of extra Reach, and then carry them safely with you (for instance the skill buffing) is OP or not as it would in no way ever trigger Dissonance (or at least I can't think of how that would occur).

        Simon's interpretation would would allow for the benefits to be used within the confines of the Demesne (which I only recently realized I was pronouncing utterly incorrectly as Demense instead of Domain) without being able to carry uber spells around with you as a regular occurrence.

        I plan on thinking a bit more on the topic, and continuing to follow this thread, before I decide exactly how I'll handle it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
          Heck, if it was the latter then we wouldn't have Dissonance, you'd just roll for Paradox every time a Sleeper popped up around magic.

          That statement changed my mind. Initially I agreed with Simon and intended on handling this situation as he has described, party because I agreed with his interpretation of the meaning of "duration" and cause I thought it would be thematically fun to be walking down the street and suddenly OMGWTFPARADOXOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW. But this statement from Mrmdubois actually changed my mind. I do wonder though if the ability of cast spells with utterly insane amounts of extra Reach, and then carry them safely with you (for instance the skill buffing) is OP or not as it would in no way ever trigger Dissonance (or at least I can't think of how that would occur).

          Simon's interpretation would would allow for the benefits to be used within the confines of the Demesne (which I only recently realized I was pronouncing utterly incorrectly as Demense instead of Domain) without being able to carry uber spells around with you as a regular occurrence.

          I plan on thinking a bit more on the topic, and continuing to follow this thread, before I decide exactly how I'll handle it.

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          • #20
            TenguGrib It could occur if for instance you cast the spell with the Reach option to go beyond the limit of 5. If you expose a Sleeper to an obviously supernatural Supernal effect it will trigger either Paradox or Dissonance, and going above usual skill maximums applies.

            Now, that aside, what you should actually consider is that Sleepers causing Paradox or Dissonance is -not- a mechanic designed to keep Mages from being OP. It’s a mechanic designed to create consequences for the careless employment of magic. That isn’t the same thing. If the Mage has an amazing souped up spell and it can fly entirely under the radar of Sleepers then that’s the Mage being in control of his magic, being careful to not let it accidentally harm innocent bystanders, in short he’s being wise.

            The game doesn’t care about OP in the way that you’re thinking, it wants you to be tempted to get away with the most ludicrously beneficial mechanics contrivances you can think of because that is one of the things driving the game, the development of phenomenal cosmic powers and the cost of using those powers recklessly. The only thing in Mage that’s actually OP is if one mechanic is made exclusively better than any other mechanic such that it would e stupid for a player to not use it. Mage doesn’t have that problem, because of its breadth and depth for every trump card you can think up there’s an N number of trump cards that can trounce it.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
              TenguGrib It could occur if for instance you cast the spell with the Reach option to go beyond the limit of 5. If you expose a Sleeper to an obviously supernatural Supernal effect it will trigger either Paradox or Dissonance, and going above usual skill maximums applies.

              Now, that aside, what you should actually consider is that Sleepers causing Paradox or Dissonance is -not- a mechanic designed to keep Mages from being OP. It’s a mechanic designed to create consequences for the careless employment of magic. That isn’t the same thing. If the Mage has an amazing souped up spell and it can fly entirely under the radar of Sleepers then that’s the Mage being in control of his magic, being careful to not let it accidentally harm innocent bystanders, in short he’s being wise.

              The game doesn’t care about OP in the way that you’re thinking, it wants you to be tempted to get away with the most ludicrously beneficial mechanics contrivances you can think of because that is one of the things driving the game, the development of phenomenal cosmic powers and the cost of using those powers recklessly. The only thing in Mage that’s actually OP is if one mechanic is made exclusively better than any other mechanic such that it would e stupid for a player to not use it. Mage doesn’t have that problem, because of its breadth and depth for every trump card you can think up there’s an N number of trump cards that can trounce it.

              Yeah my use of OP was a poor choice of terminology because I agree with you. I guess what I meant to say was that making use of a Demense for casting should not allow you to avoid ever facing the dangers of Reaching too far. As far as hiding it from sleepers, you're right, if you can get away with making it seem "normal" then that's awesome and good job to you, regardless of how powerful the effect is.

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