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Fate's Purvey of Intentions and what does it mean?

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  • #16
    Perhaps. If that's the meaning though then I personally find it unnecessary for Fate to have intentions as being listed under the purview of Fate. I see Destinies being the broader purview under which such intentions would fall. Perhaps this is the Mastigos in me rising up, but as I see it such "intentions" are simply the desires of Fate (whether springing naturally or from Acanthus not really being relevant here) made manifest. Perhaps my understanding is poor, but I really can't distinguish marking someone or something as being "intended" for something from the intention being the person's/thing's destination (aka, destiny). It'd be easier to understand if there was some other published Fate spell that clearly dealt with such a thing, or perhaps a published mystery directly related to the intentions purview.

    I guess what I'm saying is that to me there is no nuance. The way you have described them is the same to me.
    Last edited by Falcon777; 11-04-2018, 05:38 PM.

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    • #17
      I don't think I can argue it well as I should but I think the answer is in myth. Destiny and intentions might be synonyms but their tone is different enough to see fine usage, as with any synonyms.

      Lets try this. Oedipus is destined to marry his mother and kill his father, but his Intentions-in-Fate is "Tragedy of inescapable Destiny"

      I might give someone a terrible fate but the intention behind it might be to learn a lesson of some kind.

      Now again these to me are synonyms of sorts, so they're close enough you usually don't need a difference. The only time it should come up is like, I dunno, the practice of dynamics? When my acanthus player went archmage thats when we both started really thinking hard on what fate even is.

      So you can be destined to marry your mom and kill your father, but what if the intention wasnt "tragedy" but something else?

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      • #18
        Hmmmm....so what you're saying is that intention is...more like the manifest reason behind an outcome? As in a parent desires their child to become an adult in time so they give challenges for the child to overcome. The challenges would be the destiny, but the intention is that of maturation? If so that seems too close to an abstract concept for the arcanum of Fate to have any purview over before Archmastery.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
          Hmmmm....so what you're saying is that intention is...more like the manifest reason behind an outcome? As in a parent desires their child to become an adult in time so they give challenges for the child to overcome. The challenges would be the destiny, but the intention is that of maturation? If so that seems too close to an abstract concept for the arcanum of Fate to have any purview over before Archmastery.
          I would say so, but, I should note that the specifics of a destiny arent set in stone without Time. No Time, no specifics.

          Destiny can make you kill your mom and marry your mom. Groooossss gross gross, but, without the intention for the tale to be a tragedy, this destiny could cause something yucky like Oedipus deciding "hey shes my mom but we get along great! time to just relax, its fine!"

          So destiny fulfilled but Oedipus doesnt cut his eyes out. No intention in the destiny? no mother suicide.

          Fate spells kinda have to be understood with fae-logic. The "story" is the effect. so the targets are stortstructures or game mechanics

          Edit: caveat, subjects still have to be persons places or things, but AFTER the spell is cast its all sorta "I-dunno" unless your archmage and can then literally target abstract concepts.

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          • #20
            As an Acanthus-minded player, I agree. Fate is not the "fast" Arcanum to manifest your will in the Fallen World before Mastery (or Archmastery). Obrimos can zap with lightning the moment he masters the Fraying of Forces. Mastigos can make people Mind-puppets with just Ruling of Mind. The Acanthus can only achieve such instant displays at Making of Fate with the Miracle spell. Before Mastery of Fate, those who walk the Path of the Lunargent Thorns must wait for days, weeks, months or even years to gain whatever favor they asked for. (Unless, you are a simple man and ask for reasonable things. But who does that...)

            Although Fate takes its time, it is as much a versatile Arcanum as is a powerful one. Sure small boons and hexes seem boring but if you play them right you can achieve Road Runner (from Looney Toons) Levels of luck complete with "Acme" named anvils falling from the sky. It's all about TIME-ing

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            • #21
              Can Fate Knowing discern the intention behind a pledge? For example, suppose a clever lawyer writes a contract which looks like an inheritance tax loophole, like s contract to set up a trust, but which he secretly intends to use to steal the money. Suppose a high intelligence character with a law background could work it out. Could an Acanthus cast a spell to know the intention?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Peachy Joe View Post
                Can Fate Knowing discern the intention behind a pledge? For example, suppose a clever lawyer writes a contract which looks like an inheritance tax loophole, like s contract to set up a trust, but which he secretly intends to use to steal the money. Suppose a high intelligence character with a law background could work it out. Could an Acanthus cast a spell to know the intention?
                I'd say yes.

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                • #23
                  It doesn't look like anybody has mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure there's a Fate spell that let's you determine the intentions of somebody towards you. I don't have the book with me to get its name, but I recall it being one of the low level fate effects. I've also let my Fate players use it to do an augury on how their intended actions will play out.

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                  • #24
                    I think you're talking about Momentary Flux, which is Time 1, and tells you whether a subject will be a boon or a bane in the most likely future.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HerbertIsBestBert View Post
                      I think you're talking about Momentary Flux, which is Time 1, and tells you whether a subject will be a boon or a bane in the most likely future.
                      Oops, you might be right. Teach me not to double check the book.

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                      • #26
                        Aye, what you were looking at was a time spell. However, I would say that Serendipity (a Fate knowing spell) does still deal with intentions. You state a goal that you have and the spell gives you an idea of how to pursue that goal. It's not quite the same thing, but it's similar.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Peachy Joe View Post
                          Can Fate Knowing discern the intention behind a pledge? For example, suppose a clever lawyer writes a contract which looks like an inheritance tax loophole, like s contract to set up a trust, but which he secretly intends to use to steal the money. Suppose a high intelligence character with a law background could work it out. Could an Acanthus cast a spell to know the intention?
                          With just Time it's more complicated but you get more specific answers. The lawyer may intend to abuse the inheritance but there might be complications. He might even die before pulling his long-term scheme off. Your mage will look for the most possible result at the time of casting, but time is mutable. Sure, you make prophecies, but in a world where you can go back, kill your parents and still exist, prophecies for the far future might become irrelevant. So, you don't get the intentions, just the outcome.

                          With just Fate, it's less complicated but the answers are abstract. Asking Fate to tell you the intentions of the lawyer is possible, but it will be hints not a direct answer. After casting, your email might be spammed with "READ THIS; FRAUD SCHEMES ARE ON THE RISE" or while zapping in the TV most Channels have commercials about "Tax Fraud Support lines". So, you can get the intentions but it requires some effort from your part. And you don't neccessarily get the final outcome.

                          The best way around this IMO is to use both; Fate for the intentions and Time for the outcome

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Peachy Joe View Post
                            Can Fate Knowing discern the intention behind a pledge? For example, suppose a clever lawyer writes a contract which looks like an inheritance tax loophole, like s contract to set up a trust, but which he secretly intends to use to steal the money. Suppose a high intelligence character with a law background could work it out. Could an Acanthus cast a spell to know the intention?
                            With just Time it's more complicated but you get more specific answers. The lawyer may intend to abuse the inheritance but there might be complications. He might even die before pulling his long-term scheme off. Your mage will look for the most possible result at the time of casting, but time is mutable. Sure, you make prophecies, but in a world where you can go back, kill your parents and still exist, prophecies for the far future might become irrelevant. So, you don't get the intentions, just the outcome.

                            With just Fate, it's less complicated but the answers are abstract. Asking Fate to tell you the intentions of the lawyer is possible, but it will be hints not a direct answer. After casting, your email might be spammed with "READ THIS; FRAUD SCHEMES ARE ON THE RISE" or while zapping in the TV most Channels have commercials about "Tax Fraud Support lines". So, you can get the intentions but it requires some effort from your part. And you don't neccessarily get the final outcome.

                            The best way around this IMO is to use both; Fate for the intentions and Time for the outcome

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Shadowjim12 View Post
                              Asking Fate to tell you the intentions of the lawyer is possible, but it will be hints not a direct answer. After casting, your email might be spammed with "READ THIS; FRAUD SCHEMES ARE ON THE RISE" or while zapping in the TV most Channels have commercials about "Tax Fraud Support lines". So, you can get the intentions but it requires some effort from your part. And you don't neccessarily get the final outcome.
                              Knowing spells grant you direct knowledge. No need to interpret it through your senses and certainly not through physical media or anything like that. If it's possible (I really wish we had Fate spells relating to intentions as a precedent) then you'd know the intentions the moment the spell has been cast.


                              Bloodline: The Stygians
                              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                              • #30
                                So this came up in my game last week. The Mastigos in my group has Fate 1 and cast Serendipity to get an omen about which way the cabal should go to find an NPC inside a large colonial house. I had a tree branch fall on the cellar door entrance after a recent storm had dislodged it.

                                That seems more in line with how Fate would work than something directly into your brain like a voice saying "Cellar Door" IMO, so I don't know if I agree with Knowing being so devoid of flavor all the time.

                                It also gave me the opportunity to have the tree branch fall through the rotted wood of the cellar door, giving a further clue as to how rotted the wood was going into the cellar. Which the Moros ignored and fell through the rotted boards anyway, but I digress...

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