Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Isn't relinquishing a bit overpowered?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Michael
    replied
    I think I'd just refund the XP cost like the Sanctity of Merits rule. It feels like a very meta-gamble that I don't really have time for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    That's completely missing the point of Dave's post though to nitpick some technicality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
    Yeah, but first edition xp costs were quite different, so that's really neither here nor there.
    I'm pointing out that the trait cost for an Embrace has changed in case that's why Dave thought the converted XP cost was only one XP instead of two. It seems more likely than mistaking Humanity dots to cost one XP when no Integrity equivalent has that cost in second edition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Falcon777
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    It costs a Humanity dot instead of WP dot as in first edition, and Humanity dots costs 2 XP. On top of that lost Humanity dots have more dire consequences than just a lower WP pool.
    Unless you have maxed Coil of the Voivode in which case the Embrace is just a breaking point at Humanity 3 and gets an extra +1 bonus to the detachment roll.
    Yeah, but first edition xp costs were quite different, so that's really neither here nor there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    It costs a Humanity dot instead of WP dot as in first edition, and Humanity dots costs 2 XP. On top of that lost Humanity dots have more dire consequences than just a lower WP pool.
    Unless you have maxed Coil of the Voivode in which case the Embrace is just a breaking point at Humanity 3 and gets an extra +1 bonus to the detachment roll.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave Brookshaw
    replied
    1xp is the same price, to put it into perspective, that vampires pay for the embrace.

    And when playing vampire a few weeks ago, I still embraced someone in order to test an artifact we'd found that was supposed to kill Kindred, because it was cool. So what if I'm now permanently 5 whole beats "behind" the other players?

    You wouldn't churn out Imbued Item after Imbued Item without some other way of relinquishing or serious recompense, which is why dedicated crafters in the Orders are lauded, looked after, and well-paid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarlet Witch
    replied
    Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
    Not really. It's about perspective.

    A Gnosis 3 Mage can relinquish a combined, indefinite spell for 1 xp, gaining the effects of two spells of their choosing for the same price as a 1-dot merit. Even singlular 1-dot spells are generally more potent effects than one-dot merits, but relinquishing is hardly limited to one-dot spells, and this is combining two effects (more at higher Gnosis).

    Relinquished Spells are some of the most cost-effective power increases available in the game, but they come with massive drawbacks in that the investment isn't protected, and there are ways for your enemies to attack that investment in published material.
    I'd agree but it has become expensive for me thats for sure but I don't have any STs who run for me anymore so my idea might be scewed. My previous ST was actually pretty terrible and kept pressuring me into doing relinqished spells and then dispelling them. I only quit after they had a goddamn werewolf dispel one of my spells as a counter spell after using up all my resources already.

    But I think relinquished spells are still great but..
    nooot overpoweredly so. I still stand by theyre super expensive, but not prohibitively so. I find them to be an excellent form of mage currency, a kind of money, and the real reason imbued items would be soooo expensive.

    Leave a comment:


  • HerbertIsBestBert
    replied
    The biggest problem with Relinquished spells, beyond the system constraints, is that as a non - refundable resource, there has to be a judgement call by the ST as to how much pressure and risk is to be placed on their possible disruption /dispellation.

    Much like issues with retainers before Sanctity of Merits, the investment has an inherent risk which can be difficult for an ST to manage without either overlooking its flaws, or pushing them too hard.

    And unlike a retainer, you can't "heal" a dissonanced/dispelled spell. Well, not normally.
    Last edited by HerbertIsBestBert; 11-25-2018, 06:59 PM. Reason: Clarity

    Leave a comment:


  • lnodiv
    replied
    Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post
    This means 10 spells would cost 10xp. Its insanely expensive!
    Not really. It's about perspective.

    A Gnosis 3 Mage can relinquish a combined, indefinite spell for 1 xp, gaining the effects of two spells of their choosing for the same price as a 1-dot merit. Even singlular 1-dot spells are generally more potent effects than one-dot merits, but relinquishing is hardly limited to one-dot spells, and this is combining two effects (more at higher Gnosis).

    Relinquished Spells are some of the most cost-effective power increases available in the game, but they come with massive drawbacks in that the investment isn't protected, and there are ways for your enemies to attack that investment in published material.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vent0
    replied
    Sure, but nothing says "Having me as a friend is useful" like a long-term/indefinite Essence Fountain giving out free food Essence every so often.

    Leave a comment:


  • HerbertIsBestBert
    replied
    What kinds of spells are you actually needing to relinquish for them?
    Most of what Spirits want could be achieved in a lasting manner through more mundane means, perhaps assisted by Magic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarlet Witch
    replied
    For me the issue is long-term of wanting spirits to know my character for keeping her word.

    Leave a comment:


  • Katana1515
    replied
    Interestingly in my (anecdotal) experience of playing/running in 5 or 6 games now, I found few players are willing to risk 1XP even on potent effects when theirs a strong risk of them being dispelled or lost during play. I have had much more fun Unsafely relinquishing spells (using WP points not dots), particularly when playing a Prime Mage. A chance die of Dox a day is a small price to pay for that 8-again Yantra or maxed out Shielding spell and its pretty simple for a Prime Disciple to scrub the spells when they start to 'go sour' and recast them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarlet Witch
    replied
    Thats all great help, thanks. but back to subject, I don't think relinquishing is overpowered.

    edit: seriouslu though thanks for the help I dun deserve such help! ^^;

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    You can employ basic pressure too, "Look, my ability to control spells to buff you is limited, and that guy over there is willing to do a lot more for me if I boost him. So make me a better offer or I'm taking my services elsewhere."

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X