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Yet another Legacy, this time is Moros time

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  • Yet another Legacy, this time is Moros time

    Hi everyone, this time I bringing a legacy reboot, the Forge Masters, which I find the Alchemist Moros could find appealing. The lore was extracted from the Legacies: The Sublime book, but the attainment where reworked. I'm quite confident with the first four, but the Prime one of the Fifth Attainment... I feel it ended quite overpowered in some aspects... so, as always, any corrections or suggestions are welcome...
    Forge Masters



    At the dawn of known civilization, when Atlantis had long since passed into legend, Sleepers still knew that some men worked miracles. They chained the storm-wind in their bellows to send it roaring into the furnace. Kissed by the fire’s ardor, dull ore sweated drops of shining metal. The smith shaped this metal with hammer and tongs, and then quenched it in water. A hundred useful things came from the forge: barrel-hoops and buckles, pins and plowshares. The smith knew the secrets of shining silver and heart-gladdening gold, the soft service of copper, tin and lead and the resilience of bronze. Most of all, though, he knew the secrets of iron. Not a pretty metal, but a strong one; the perfect metal for the swords and armor that made one man master over his fellows — and it fell from the sky.

    Around the world, therefore, common folk and kings saw the smith as a figure of magic — because, of course, he was. Long before Egypt, Sumer or China, the mages of Atlantis wrought wonders in their forges of power. Smith-gods such as Greek Hephaistos, Celtic Goibniu or Yoruban Ogoun preserve a faint memory of their deeds. The mortal smiths remembered, too. They knew their Art revealed a sacred, Supernal truth: in creating tools, the smith did more than change the substance or shape of matter. He imbued matter with purpose, making it an extension of human thought and human will. This metaphysical change was at least as great and wonderful a miracle as the production of metal from ore.

    In the modern age of factories and mass production, most people forget the awe that once surrounded the Masters of Metal. The miracles have become too commonplace. A few people keep the old ways and the old secrets, though — sometimes in the very heart of the industrial world that seems to have surpassed the wonder-smiths of yore. These Awakened few know that humanity has not yet laid bare all the secrets of metal. Indeed, some of these Forge Masters believe the golden age of their Legacy has not yet come.

    Initiating a new Forge Master is the Legacy’s most elaborate ritual. The tutor builds a special furnace of stone and clay, using no magic whatsoever and no tools he did not forge himself. A hollow in the furnace floor holds a cup of the tutor’s own blood and as much tass as he can collect.

    The apprentice climbs into the furnace. He carries a nail of siderite. The tutor fires the furnace with Mana, using the Prime spells “Celestial Flame” and “Channel Mana”, and seals the apprentice inside. The spell-fire is modulated to cause pain but not serious damage. The apprentice drives the siderite nail through one wrist and lets his blood fall into the spell-fire to mingle with his tutor’s blood. Then he meditates as his tutor channels the spell-fire into his body and soul, until the pupil absorbs all the Mana he can, charged with the resonance of blood, iron and fire.

    The tutor breaks open the furnace. The pupil steps forth, glowing with spell-fire, and the Forge Master strikes the pupil with a phantasmal hammer of Mana imbued with the pupil’s own soul-pattern. The Powersmith literally hammers his apprentice’s soul into a new form. At the end, the pupil leaps into a waiting bath of cold water and lets the Mana flood out of him in a rush. Thus does he temper his own soul and lock it into the Legacy’s pattern. When he emerges, the siderite nail is gone — consumed along with the tass. The tutor destroys the furnace and may even disintegrate its stones, so it shall never be used for any purpose less sacred.

    Parentage: Moros.

    Requisites: Prime 2, Crafts 3, one of the following skills at 2 or more: Athletics, Occult, Expression.

    Ruling Arcana: Prime.

    Yantras: Tending carefully the forge fire without magic (+2), forge a tool for your own use without magic (+2), carefully arrange the tools of your workshop (+1), using your own designs when forging or creating it (+1).

    Oblations: Smelting your own metal from ore you dug yourself. Using that metal to make a tool or weapon for a client, in one day. Forging a small item and quench it in blood. Melting down scrap metal to make something both useful and beautiful. Repairing a weapon or armor that was damaged in battle so it’s as good as new.

    Attainments

    First: The Eye Pierces Through
    Prerequisites: Initiation. The Craftsman is able right after the Initiation to discern any magical qualities of the materials he sees. Enchantments hold no secrets to him, and they unravel their mysteries as requested. This attainment works as the Supernal Vision spell, but limited to objects. Reach is spent on Instant Casting and Sensory Range.

    Optional: Matter 1.
    Obviously, the objective of any tool the Blacksmith may lay his hands into, is immediately revealed to him. No tool is unknown to him, and every tool bows to him, revealing its secrets. This attainment works as the Craftsman’s Eye, with reach spent on Instant Casting.

    Second: The Hammer Commands
    Prerequisites: Prime 2, Occult 3.
    When the Forge Master commands, any imbued or enchanted item, even Artifacts, they answer to his will. This attainment works as the Word of Command spell, with Reach spent for Instant Casting and Sensory Range.

    Optional: Matter 2.
    The mere touch of the Craftsman lets any tool to perform to its fullest. After spending one hour carefully assessing the balance and weight of the tool, this attainment works as the Find the Balance spell, with Reach spent on Advanced Duration.

    Third: The Hand Shapes
    Prerequisites: Prime 3, Expression 3.
    One of the main usages of Prime for the Forge Masters is to shape Mana around a weapon so it can deal damage to any kind of spiritual entity. To this end, this attainment works as the Ephemeral Enchantment but can only be applied to weapons and armor. Reach is spent on Advanced Duration and Instant Casting.

    Optional: Matter 3.
    Prototyping before actually making any tool is quite important, and an skilled Blacksmith is able to do it with ease by means of this attainment. By spending one turn examining the base material at hand, this attainment replicates the Shaping spell, with Reach spent on Instant Casting, and to alter the shapes of solid substances.

    Fourth: The Anvil Stands Strong
    Prerequisites: Prime 4, Athletics 3.
    In order to shape and imbue objects, the Forge Master must be able to interact with the Mana, store it, and use it as any of his beloved tools. This attainment replicates the Channel Mana spell, with Reach spent on Instant Casting, and Sensory Range.

    Optional: Matter 4.
    The tools of a true Craftsman must stand strong against all the odds. No matter how many times the anvil is used to hammer on it, it must stand as strong as the day it came out of the forge. By spending one hour assessing for potential weak points on the target object, this attainment replicates the Alter Integrity spell, but can only improve objects. Reach is spent to make the effect Lasting.

    Fifth: And the True Form is Revealed
    Prerequisites: Prime 5, Crafts 5, Occult 4, Athletics 4.
    The pinnacle of any Forge Master is when he is able to fully integrate magic itself in his creations. Made to last and outclass any other mundane counterparts this attainment is what makes a Forge Master truly a master. This attainment requires the Blacksmith to meditate over a previously made design, who must have been done by him, for 1 hour; then this attainment replicates Platonic Form but with a few key differences. First, he is able to create any kind of object up to a size 5 plus his points in Matter. For every size point above 5, he must spend 1 additional Mana. If the design includes electronics, then the Forge Master needs to include Forces 3. Additionally, Reach are spent for Advanced Duration, to create complex objects, and if it’s a tool, it benefits from 8-again when used.

    Optional: Matter 5.
    Every Forge Master need assistants, and when they are not available, the Craftsman may create his own. By anointing the forehead of a human-like statue made by him with ashes from his own forge, this attainment works as the Golem spell, with Reach spent on Advanced Duration and Instant Casting. This Golem works as a Retainer, but also have, as an additional field, "forging related crafts", so it serves its master better.
    Last edited by Eleizel; 02-12-2019, 11:39 AM.

  • #2
    With Ephemeral Enchantment only being able to be used on Armors and Weapons I think it would be fine to let the attainment have another Reach for Instant Activation.

    Advanced Duration doesn't really do anything for you on Shaping, so you could spend that Reach on Instant as well.

    Ignoring your mana per turn limit on Channel Mana is going to net you very little considering how it goes up as your Gnosis increases and at Gnosis 10 is actually better going by your natural per turn limit than via the Potency of the attainment. I'd recommend setting the attainment to Sensory instead.

    For Alter Integrity, and for any spell you can't spend Reach to ignore Withstand. As it turns out with Alter Integrity you don't have the Reach to do that anyway because you need to pay 2 Reach to get the Lasting effect. On the bright side, anything you touch will have a solid 5 Durability at minimum.

    For the fifth attainment, I'm kind of iffy on that. For one, Platonic Form doesn't have a Lasting option and probably shouldn't. You specify that if the item runs out of mana it will refuse to work, but that leads to weird cases like trying to use a Platonic Hammer and...how is that not going to work? You could rationalize it, but eh...I'd either remove the Lasting part and spend the Reach on other useful things (This probably also removes the need to meditate for 24 hours), or have a different attainment altogether. For instance I don't think it would be out of bounds to let a Forge Master treat their dots in Prime as extra spell control slots for the purpose of imbuing items which will make you the guy that always has a magical doodad on hand. If you did decide to keep Platonic Form then with the Reach reassignment you could instead be the guy that can whip out whatever tool is needed at the time with an Instant action for a point of mana. Platonic Form would also let you essentially carry around mana potions.

    You get one more free Reach on Golem so feel free to make it Instant if you want.

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    • #3
      At last I have some spare time to fix this legacy. Thanks Mrmdubois for all the suggestions!! I think that now it is quite balanced, but as always, any suggestions are welcome!

      EDIT: I'm adding a Merit designed for members of this legacy, but usable by any mage with prime 4 o above, so the safe reliquishment of spells is not so taxing when working for another mages.

      Forge Master’s Fee (•••)
      Prerequisites: Forge Master’s Initiation or Prime 4.
      Effect: One of the main jobs of a Forge Master is to make Imbued Items for other mages, but since relinquishing the control of a spell is so taxating, the Blacksmiths designed this merit so the buyer may pay the cost, in addition to any other that he may agree with. When relinquishing a spell casted for another person who will benefit from it, the Blacksmith spends one point of Willpower, and the receiver of the spell, spends one dot of Willpower as part of the relinquishment. This act is exactly the same as relinquishing the spell safely.
      Last edited by Eleizel; 02-11-2019, 10:37 AM. Reason: added a new merit

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      • #4
        Looks good.

        For the final attainment with Golem, you probably don't need to stick to just human forms if you don't want to, you also don't need to limit it to being made of ashes from the FM's forge. If you do insist on these limitations then feel free to give the attainment some additional benefits in line with a couple of Reach. Even if you don't change the attainment, depending on the amount of ashes lying around, between Shaping and Golem you can create a standing army pretty darn quick.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
          being made of ashes from the FM's forge.
          The golem needs not to be made completely out of ashes from the FM forge. You need to anoint your creation with ashes, but the Golem can be build using virtually anything.

          Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
          between Shaping and Golem you can create a standing army pretty darn quick
          I didn't even thought about it XD Probably I would spend another reach so the Golem could grow the tools needed for its job (that means, while doing tasks relating to its field as a retainer) so it gives it a +1 bonus dice, or +1L weapon in combat. What do you think about it?

          As always, thanks for your suggestions.

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          • #6
            It seems pretty reasonable that a golem that works as an assistant in whatever capacity to a Forge Master would also know how to create the things that they or their master might require. Perhaps rather than just the 3 fields that golems naturally have access to of physical labor, combat, and uncomplicated physical tasks you could add a fourth field that covers the use of the Craft skill. This would make your golem a crafter and builder on par with the foremost experts in the world while still not granting them full autonomy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
              you could add a fourth field that covers the use of the Craft skill. This would make your golem a crafter and builder on par with the foremost experts in the world while still not granting them full autonomy.
              I think that your suggestion just seals the deal. I actually love that. Editing in progress... Thanks again!!

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              • #8
                This a really cool update on the Legacy, well done. It has the old Attainments, adds some cool new ones and the final ones are much more practical and interesting than the original.

                The only bit of feedback I have is that there needs to be some way to alleviate for the spell control costs of making imbued items.

                I am also reminded of this bit from JL:
                https://youtu.be/M_b3gS1Igv4

                Hephaestus builds flaws to keep any client from becoming too powerful and to have a way to stop them from being turned against him. For example, the Prime 4 Attainment could be:

                The master smith lets the fires of his passion become the crucible that tempers the Imagos of their work, allowing ever greater wonders to be made. Rolls to create imbued items gain 8-again, or rote quality if they spend a mana.

                In addition, every master of the supernal forge builds a flaw into their creation, to keep anyone from becoming too powerful or turning their works against them. Any imbued items they make remain under their control even after being safely relinquished, allowing them to make adjustments when using them. They also receive a discount of [Prime] mana when destroying the item.

                This way they can use the exceptional success to relinquish safely while still retaining a powerful ace up their sleeve.
                Last edited by KaiserAfini; 05-28-2019, 04:55 PM.


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
                  The only bit of feedback I have is that there needs to be some way to alleviate for the spell control costs of making imbued items.
                  Hence the 3 dot Merit not in the main post. As for creations not being used against their creator, the FM here have pretty complete control over any magical item since they can command them instantly and at range.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

                    Hence the 3 dot Merit not in the main post. As for creations not being used against their creator, the FM here have pretty complete control over any magical item since they can command them instantly and at range.
                    What I did for my Thaumatech Engineers legacy is allow an exceptional success on 3 when imbuing an item as the 4th Prime Attainment. You could do something similar as Channel Mana isn't a particularly useful Legacy Attainment.


                    Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                      What I did for my Thaumatech Engineers legacy is allow an exceptional success on 3 when imbuing an item as the 4th Prime Attainment. You could do something similar as Channel Mana isn't a particularly useful Legacy Attainment.
                      Yeah exactly, the Sparks incorporated the focus on magical craftsmanship very nicely. But I wanted to suggest a different approach to avoid copying it.

                      While Channel Mana is ok, its not vital. Rather than a separate merit, I thought it could be good to incorporate their specialty on imbuing into their normal toolkit.

                      Words of Command can be very useful, it cannot tell an item to stop, sleep, seal itself or an equivalent. Since the item is marked by their Nimbus and probably their identifying seal, I imagined they wouldn't want to become famous in the same way as Muramasa. But if they can produce imbued items easier and prevent their misuse, then that could be an interesting bargaining chip.


                      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post

                        Yeah exactly, the Sparks incorporated the focus on magical craftsmanship very nicely. But I wanted to suggest a different approach to avoid copying it.
                        I missed your suggestion, sorry! Rote quality is really strong, but could certainly work. I'm planning on revamping the Sparks after Signs of Sorcery comes out because we should be getting new crafting goodies in it, Eleizel might want to do the same. IIRC we will be getting alternate relinquishment.


                        Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Channel Mana can completely depower an item in a turn or two, and with the ability to switch items on and tell them what to target...anyone that gets within sensory range with one will find them turned against their owner.

                          Exceptional Success on 3 instead of five is a pretty good alternative though.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                            Channel Mana can completely depower an item in a turn or two, and with the ability to switch items on and tell them what to target anyone that gets within sensory range with one will find them turned against their owner.

                            Exceptional Success on 3 instead of five is a pretty good alternative though.
                            Channel Mana is strong, but it's not an amazing attainment; it's invisible to Sleepers already and doesn't take up spell control, so there's not much benefit over just casting it as a spell (other than the auto-success, I suppose, but at Prime 4 and Gnosis 6 that shouldn't be an issue).


                            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It also can’t be counter-spelled, though frankly that doesn’t seem to usually be an issue anyway.

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