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The Realms Invisible, Arcana, and You!

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  • The Realms Invisible, Arcana, and You!

    Okay, so something I've been wondering about and not been able to find an answer to is how the Arcana interact with the various otherworldy places. The Astral is good: things there are things as they are supposed to be. But what about Twilight? Or the Shadow? Basically, if you were to use Death to enter Twilight, you are now made of ephemera. But does that mean that you can sculpt your appearance with Death, now? And heal you? I mean, I'd say no, and that a living thing is still a living thing, so Life still applies, but I'm not sure if it's completely clear.

    The Shadow makes it more complicated. I mean, the ground in the Spirit World is made of spirit-stuff, so does that mean that Spirit can reshape it as if it were the Matter Arcanum? And is Matter completely useless in the Shadow (except, if I were to go with the logic above, anything you bring with you from the material?) This one I'm really not sure on how to deal with.

    So, if anyone with better searching skills than me knows where to find the answers could point me there, that would be great And if there isn't any sort of definitive answer, what do people think? Personally, I would be inclined to say that everything stays under its own purview (so mages are Life, wherever they are, and objects are Matter, even if they've turned into spirit-ephemera), while, maybe, you'd need Matter and a conjunctional Spirit component to alter objects in the Shadow? Really not sure about that last one.

  • #2
    Everything in the Shadow and the Underworld is made out of ephemera (including people and objects you bring with you, they're converted once you enter the realms) and ephemera are only affected by their associated Arcana. Life and Matter does not work in either realm because nothing is made out of biological materials or physical matter.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Yeah, that makes sense and was my immediate thought, but it feels a bit off, somehow. It's like "well, we're in the Shadow now, so the Spirit mage just got three Arcana for the price of one, and the Life and Matter mages can just sit over there." It's like, sure, different situations are great for different mages, but the Shadow has this whole world going for it, and two Arcana are completely ineffectual in there. So going for a quest for a lost ruin in some spirit realm becomes really limiting, wheras handling a good ol' haunting is going to give the Death mage a chance to shine, but other Arcana are still useful.

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      • #4
        That has some interesting implications.

        Following that train of thought, what stops an Thrysus or Moros from creating multiple items utilizing the right Resonance ? So lets say you want a Shaed like in the Kingkiller Chronicle. You could find an area of darkness resonance in the Shadow and forge it there or an area of the Underworld with the same properties. A Ruling practice could forge in into any form permanently, like with Shaping from Matter. Difference is that it would be intangible and invisible in the Material without a Weaving practice. But potentially it means they can become crazy prepared, able to use empowered items that are mundanely undetectable at no spell control tax. Masters can make Safe Houses with anything they want in those Realms, so it is possible. Naturally, the most potent ones come sculpting ghost and spirits into these forms. Who needs fetishes when you can fleshcra....ahem.....evolve these beings into a more Supernally harmonious form. Hubris ? Never heard of it.

        Another option is a Pattering of those Arcana with Life conjunctional (or not, if you cast them inside those Realms) to grant the target [Potency] dots in Influences up to a max of the caster's subtle Arcana's dots. 5 dots means mass creation of anything within its scope ex nihilo or permanent creation of individual items, which is crazy powerful (and people say Superlative Luck's Conditions affecting spells is insane ? Influences give a huge level of control). All the other dots are also very potent. Actually, can't Mind do the same by Pattering your Astral Projection? It could allow you to use Mana/Essence to get Numina or Influences to manipulate the material.

        Lastly there is experimentation. Move a person to a different phase and you can cure them of anything by just using the Arcanum in question, before going back to the Material. Or alter them with said Arcana's version of Shaping to make supersoldiers, cryptids or other things that would make them a CofD version of the Tzimisce.
        Last edited by KaiserAfini; 01-26-2019, 05:24 PM.


        New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


        The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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        • #5
          I'm pretty sure I've heard that while you can be in Twilight or an Invisible Realm it doesn't actually translate you to ephemera so other arcana still apply. Some things do get converted, for instance Matter going through a Ghost Gate. You could presumably use Shielding to allow a transition without conversion.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
            I'm pretty sure I've heard that while you can be in Twilight or an Invisible Realm it doesn't actually translate you to ephemera so other arcana still apply. Some things do get converted, for instance Matter going through a Ghost Gate. You could presumably use Shielding to allow a transition without conversion.
            Edit:
            "Anyone and anything that crosses over changes into ephemeral matter, and automatically changes back when it returns to the material plane. Anything that began as ephemera arrives in the material world in Twilight."

            Page 245.
            Last edited by Tessie; 01-26-2019, 05:51 PM.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tessie View Post

              Edit:
              "Anyone and anything that crosses over changes into ephemeral matter, and automatically changes back when it returns to the material plane. Anything that began as ephemera arrives in the material world in Twilight."

              Page 245.
              Is that only Ghost Gate or crossing over to the non-Astral Realms Invisible in general ?


              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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              • #8
                That's the description for the Shadow, regardless of who anyone enters it. The Underworld should work the same but I don't know if it's explicitly stated.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Malus Black View Post
                  And if there isn't any sort of definitive answer, what do people think? Personally, I would be inclined to say that everything stays under its own purview (so mages are Life, wherever they are, and objects are Matter, even if they've turned into spirit-ephemera)
                  I tend towards that version. That's how it was in 1e and I don't really see much utility in changing it.


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