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  • #31
    Total misunderstanding then, I am very sorry you took it that way. It was not my intent to dismiss your averages, though I can see how that was derived. I just merely wanted to apply what you had pointed out accurately to my running scenario that I was basing things on.
    Last edited by Taldorblackfire; 03-12-2019, 04:19 PM.


    "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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    • #32
      I think we can coclude that a 10 man gang armed with firearms that ambushes any starting supernatural is a deadly situation for the supernatural with minimal to moderate casualties for the gang.

      Personally, If I want to "play out" likely outcomes of a fight I create 3 scenarios a) Perfect Team A, b) Perfect Team B and c) Average

      In your example, a Perfect synchronized ambush that the mage failed to notice (and thus failed to cast or activate mage armor or apply defence) will end with him dead. A perfect mage scenario would be if he survives the first round (via NPC failed rolls or his own reactions) then find the right combo of spells to escape (forces 2, mind 2, ally spirit, artifact, etc) and/or retaliate, possible to eliminate all his enemies.

      These are edge cases though. Most of the time the situation will turn up somewhere in between and that's where "average" becomes important. It is an interesting thought and statistical experiment but I have to ask "what kind of storyteller will ambush his starting players with 10 armed guys?"

      Truth be told, I fell in the same trap too; doing numerical calculations of "how many bad guys can my party fight at once" when the question itself is wrong. In my case the correct question was "what is this scene about?"

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      • #33
        Is this scene about your PCs discovering their newfound powers? Let them smash 5 police officers without a scratch.

        Is this scene about teaching them their limits? Have 20+ grapple them and beat them bashingly unconsious with disbelief and paradox creating chaos and them waking robed at the street or the hospital

        My point is the "flavour" of the scene is much more important than theorycrafting the mechanics since a storyteller can direct it either way, regardless of npc templates and numbers.

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        • #34
          You make some good points, mostly this was apparently my lack of understanding all the mechanics involved in combat & damage. Sure, I could overwhelm them with brute force or do this and that, but I felt I was missing something or something wasn't logically adding up in my head. I thought, perhaps Mage Armor was unbeatable, but as I found out from this thread there were many factors I had not been including. The scene in question was suppose to be a drug deal made between a Seer and a Pentacle member who was a really good "cook" and the Seer wanted his stuff. Seers, however, love using Proxies so I was trying to build that frame up from that.


          "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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          • #35
            For anyone curious here is the breakdown for survivability at least in Round 1 for the following scenario for a starting member of a splat based on 5 million simulations:
            Enemy Count: 10, Enemy Die Pool: 10, Enemy Weapon: Small SMG, No Die Tricks
            PC Health: 8, PC Base Defense: 3
            Mage with Force/Matter Armor: 7%
            Mage with Life Armor: 2%
            ​Mage with Death/Spirit Armor: 0%
            Mage with Mind/Space/Fate/Time Armor: 0%
            Vampire with Resilience 2, Celerity 1: 42%
            Werewolf in Gauru Form: 1%

            Best be a Resilient Vampire.


            "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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            • #36
              I generally feel that in baseline CofD guns aren't really as dangerous as one would asume they should be. Hurt Locker changed things by introducing the Bleeding tilt that really makes weapons way more dangerous.

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              • #37
                I haven't added those effects into my simulations, but I am using an extremely high number of enemies. Perhaps with those added the threshold would be much much lower. Good point though.


                "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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