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True Resurrection: this shouldn't work but how?

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  • True Resurrection: this shouldn't work but how?

    Ignoring just timetravelling to prevent the death in the first place, a Death 5 Time 5 mage could use Time to make an arbitrary corpse "recently dead" and use Death to fix/resurrect the dead body. Most importantly though, they could use Time and Death to retrieve the soul of the deceased from the past before their death. So that could be a full complete resurrection.

    It shouldn't be though. I just can't think of how

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lareath View Post
    Ignoring just timetravelling to prevent the death in the first place, a Death 5 Time 5 mage could use Time to make an arbitrary corpse "recently dead" and use Death to fix/resurrect the dead body. Most importantly though, they could use Time and Death to retrieve the soul of the deceased from the past before their death. So that could be a full complete resurrection.

    It shouldn't be though. I just can't think of how
    Retrieving the soul of the deceased from the past literally isn't going to work without time travel in the first place, and both resurrecting the body and reattaching the soul require maintaining additional spells.


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Satchel View Post

      Retrieving the soul of the deceased from the past literally isn't going to work without time travel in the first place, and both resurrecting the body and reattaching the soul require maintaining additional spells.
      I ... don't see how this is an objection?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lareath View Post
        I ... don't see how this is an objection?
        Then you're not being terribly clear about what you're asking.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lareath View Post
          I ... don't see how this is an objection?
          Is there some framework you had in mind where discounting the simple plan of traveling back in time to prevent the death is necessary but traveling back in time to steal the target's soul ahead of time is totally fine?


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • #6
            The text of Mage seems to imply (to me anyway) that souls of the deceased go on to transcend the boundaries of the Fallen World, which could mean that once someone dies, their soul can no longer be retrieved from any point in time.
            Last edited by espritdecalmar; 02-24-2019, 06:41 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
              The text of Mage seems to imply (to me anyway) that souls of the deceased go on to transcend the boundaries of the Fallen World, which could mean that once someone dies, their soul can no longer be retrieved from any point in time.
              If that were true then using Shifting Sands to go back an hour in the past to save your cabal mate and prevent them from dying would leave them soulless, which is something I think would have been mentioned somewhere either in the spell or in the general introduction to how Time works. As it is I'm pretty sure that whatever souls do after death is still bound by time.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ashenrogue View Post
                If that were true then using Shifting Sands to go back an hour in the past to save your cabal mate and prevent them from dying would leave them soulless, which is something I think would have been mentioned somewhere either in the spell or in the general introduction to how Time works. As it is I'm pretty sure that whatever souls do after death is still bound by time.
                Ah, fair point.

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                • #9
                  I had this impression as well! I can't remember why though. It feels like it came from somewhere buried in 1st Edition...

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                  • #10
                    You could technically do all of this, but why would you bother setting this up if you're already capable of time travelling to a point before the subject's demise and thus being capable of just preventing their death outright?
                    One of the drawbacks of doing this would be that you're forced to use at least one non-Lasting spell which, if undone, will straight up kill the subject.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                    • #11
                      Not to mention the fact that the spell holding the person alive has to be maintained; if it is dispelled the person dies again. So yeah, just go back in time and prevent the death in the first place. I guarantee you that it is far less hassle (with the exception that the ST can, if he wants to, make it more hassle).

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                      • #12
                        That's the spell I meant, yes.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                        • #13
                          this shouldn't work
                          Why?

                          It's more convoluted than just preventing the death in the first place, and only has disadvantages compared to that other, easier method. Even if that weren't the case, though, I'm having trouble understanding the premise of this being a thing that should be impossible?

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                          • #14
                            This is no where near true resurrection. It's not a lasting effect, so you'll need to maintain the spells, or at the very least spend willpower dot just to relinquish the effects, which can then be easily dispelled.
                            Last edited by milo v3; 02-26-2019, 07:30 AM.


                            Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

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                            • #15
                              Aren't souls fairly interchangeable anyway? Making the corpse recently dead, fix it with death, and sticking any old soul into it could work without the time travel right?

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