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Has anyone done a 2nd ed Wraiths of Epoch conversion

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  • Has anyone done a 2nd ed Wraiths of Epoch conversion

    I have tried searching the forums but haven't found anything. Is there a conversion around or suggestions for how you would convert it? Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Nah, hasn't been done yet. There are some challenges to it, for one their attainments aren't exactly the easiest to break down since they dip into at least Fate at one point instead of sticking strictly to Time and Death. For two, it'd be kind of a waste of an attainment to have the Time stuff work the way it did in 1e, which was mostly getting Postcognition, but better than standard at each level which in 2e can be done with just one attainment with sufficiently high Reach. Pretty cool legacy though, so I wouldn't mind seeing it get done and pitching in on it.

    The first thought that occurs to me is that they can start with basic Postcognition, and with each attainment add a Reach or two to it by sacrificing Reach from the attainments that come down the line. So like, you get Temporal Summons say at the 4th attainment, but only one Reach is spent on it, and the other Reach it could have received is instead spent on beefing up Postcognition.
    Last edited by Mrmdubois; 03-02-2019, 07:39 AM.


    • #3
      Here is my rough draft of the Wraiths, this is my first conversion and they are wonky so I am open to any suggestions and help that I can get especially with the primary 4th attainment which I drew a blank on.

      Wraiths of Epoch
      The modern world is not kind to magic. The Arcana taunt the descendants of Atlantis with miracles they dare not invoke for fear of Paradox or the mob rule of Sleepers. The Abyss yawns wider with every passing year toward grim apocalypse or the final severance of the Supernal. It is no wonder that many mages look back wistfully on bygone ages when they did not merely nudge the vagaries of chance by tremulous degrees, but invoked the cosmos with brilliance and courage.

      Even as magic withers, the works of man give more cause for despair. For every wizard who marvels at the technological triumphs of the 21 century, there are those who lament such ubiquitous power, bitterly wondering what value their hard-earned rotes hold when anyone might fly or speak to another across the expanse of continents or lay waste to nations with forces wrested from radiant ores. What was once wondrous has become commonplace, no longer a reward of singular genius and invincible will. Worst of all, these advances threaten magic itself by offering mages quick-and-dirty alternatives to their Arcana.

      While such pessimistic elitism is not uncommon among mages, most eventually reconcile themselves with some facet of modernity, or else ennui consumes them utterly. Far fewer have the emotional fortitude to fully embrace the power and burden of the past, challenging perceived inconsequence by crafting their souls in the likeness of history’s echoes. As much antiques as antiquarians, history as historians, the Wraiths of Epochs have never found broad acceptance as a Legacy, though they are older than most traditions they preserve. From the Fall of Atlantis, they lingered among its ruins as living ghosts, anchoring themselves to the ideals of reminisced greatness. As history unfolded, they watched and remembered while the Abyss gnawed at the threads of human accomplishment and potential. The Wraiths of Epochs have become the self-appointed stewards of all things forgotten, waging an endless war to uncover what time erodes faster than time can destroy it. They do not accept that all good things pass, despite the grim preponderance of evidence to the contrary.

      Despite their reputation, the Wraiths of Epochs do not reject technology out of ignorance or geriatric rigidity, and they aren’t inherently antagonistic to every invention on principle. Instead, the Epoch's philosophy lays blame at the convenience of technology to distract mages from exploring their power, thereby atrophying what magic remains in the world. Raised in an age of cell phones and rockets, most Wraiths fully comprehend the seductive lure of the modern. The Legacy draws new members from those willing to surrender conveniences for more profound truths. In the eyes of Wraith luminaries, mages unable or unwilling to make such ascetic sacrifices lack the devotion to advance in the Legacy’s mysteries.

      Because of their myopic focus, the Wraiths of Epochs find few recruits. It is not enough that a potential Wraith is enamored of history, as so many mages are. A disciple must also reject the modern world so fiercely that he is willing to cut himself off from its advances. Such rejection can stem from disgust or horror or even an irresistible longing for a better and purer time. Whatever the motivation, candidates must endure extensive trials to test their commitment before a Wraith will help them craft their souls. These tests begin simply enough, initially intended to inconvenience and annoy. If the candidate persists, successive trials gradually sever him from the aspects of modernity he most values. Only when a mage fully divests himself of distractions and embraces a lifestyle of contemplative isolation can he make the final sacrifice, forsaking future for past as he gives up happiness, prosperity and the comforting illusion that he matters in the grand design of the universe.

      Within the mage community, Wraiths of Epochs generally go unnoticed unless someone wants to consult them on some aspect of the past or lure them out of passive research with the promise of new archeological finds. Although Wraiths seldom eschew politics entirely, having immersed themselves in enough cycles of civilization to recognize the dangers of total isolation, most find such endeavors distasteful as a matter of principle and prefer to hide behind heavy occultation and a reputation of disinterested neutrality whenever possible. The most politically active Wraiths work within the Mysterium to guide the order’s research toward the secrets of the past rather than contemporary lore. From an adversarial standpoint, Wraiths violently oppose the Cult of the Doomsday Clock, whose calculated disruptions threaten the past as much as the future. The Ticktock men reciprocate this hostility, as Wraith Attainments can pierce the truth of destroyed time in ways most magic cannot.

      Among Sleepers, Wraiths of Echoes who maintain visible mortal lives typically find work as teachers, librarians, museum curators and other specialized jobs at the fringes of academia, allowing Wraiths to disguise their anachronisms as perfectly “normal” behavior for their profession. Those who break ties with human society live almost entirely beyond its needs and notice.

      Parent Path or Order: Moros/Mysterium
      Nickname: Atavists
      Appearance: Regardless of their actual health or age, Wraiths of Epochs tend to evince a visage of frailty and age. They can be handsome or hideous, beautiful or decrepit, but their prematurely whitened hair and the delicate wrinkles framing the corners of their perpetually haunted eyes give them a kind of scholarly gravitas that often serves them well in their chosen professions. Such frailty is only skin deep, however, as each Wraith’s nimbus radiates an implacable primordial darkness that leaves onlookers feeling like children confronted with something impossibly and unknowably old.
      Background: Not all Wraiths come from academia, but those who do not must have sufficient open-mindedness to pursue such studies before being considered for membership. Ultimately, it is each Wraith’s devotion to the past that matters, whether that devotion manifests in a hoary armchair historian, a tribal shaman dedicated to preserving his people’s traditions or an armor-clad SCA enthusiast.
      Organization: Similar to mundane historians, Wraiths of Epochs tend to specialize in a particular period of history or the history of a particular geographical region. Consequently, the Legacy is haphazardly structured according to Lineages of related curricula, as each student continues or branches away from the studies of her teacher. Given their shared reverence for the past, younger Wraiths tend to defer to their elders as a matter of respect, but some break with this tradition and take a more egalitarian approach rooted in the idea that all Wraiths are children when compared with the sum and total of history.
      Oblations: Studying historical documents or artifacts; teaching others (especially about the past); engaging in ceremonial behavior in accordance with longstanding cultural traditions; forgoing a useful convenience of the modern world; experiencing and meditating on important events via postcognition.
      Arcana: Time (Primary)

      First: All Things Lost
      Prerequisites: Initiation
      This attainment mimics the Time 2 version of Time 1 Postcognition (“reach” is applied to seeing further back in time. This attainment will still work even if another supernatural creature has “scrubbed” the item clean of resonance. This requires a Clash of Wills contest. At this level of the legacy, the Wraith permanently benefits or suffers from Death Mage Sight.

      Second: All Things Constant
      Prerequisites: Time 2, Academics 3
      This attainment mimics the Time 2 spell, Constant Presence. It allows the Wraith to protect reality from the tampering of time by other mages.

      Optional (Death 2): Soul Armor
      The Wraith has worked to make his soul resistant to the tampering of others. He is locked in a state of stasis.

      Third: Never Forward
      Prerequisites: Time 3, Academics 3
      This attainment causes a permanent change on the Wraith. Her body enters into a state of suspended animation. She no longer needs to eat, drink, or breath. She becomes immune to mundane toxins and disease. An examination shows that she is in fact dead even though she continues to function and an examination using life magic sees a living pattern. An additional benefit to this attainment is an alteration of the first one, it becomes a reflexive action to activate and does not require concentration

      Optional (Death 3): A Wraith with this attainment treats her pattern as if she were undead for purposes of magic, meaning that she treats her Death arcana as Life for altering or healing her body, albeit her Death is counted as one dot less. So she could cast Hone the Form at Death 4

      Fourth: Placeholder
      Prerequisites: Time 4, Academics 4

      Optional (Death 4)
      Ghostform, the Wraith can transform himself and his belongings into Twilight, making himself like a ghost

      Fifth: Temporal Pocket
      Prerequisites: Time 5, Academics 5
      The Wraith can step outside of time into a pocket dimension where time flows normally for him but for the outside world it is paused. This mimics the Time 5 Temporal Pocket spell.


      • #4
        First thing I'd note in the mythology, and you don't actually have to change it since it's mythology, is simply that Atlantis never was. It's a mythology that helps the Diamond hold themselves together, but even most of them recognize that it probably isn't what actually happened. I dig your take on them though, really dig it. By the way, one category of Mage I'd consider adding to potentials of this legacy are those that have metamorphic Awakenings, such that they came from another time in the Past, but found themselves in the Present. Maybe they'd view this legacy as a way of giving them a chance to go back to where they came from, it's not a golden age per se, but it -is- more familiar.

        Okay, on to mechanics!

        The first attainment is a bit buggered, you can't have a Time 2 option available at Time 1. So, I'd change that. For the Death Mage Sight, I'd probably set it up in the same way that it's set up for the 11Q, in other words there's a specific trigger and they get automatic successes on a CoW to find what they're looking for instead of having it running all the time. All the time MS is bad for your health as it requires WP to keep active.

        It should be noted with the Time 2 attainment it will only protect the subject of the attainment, which in all likelihood is the Mage themselves. They can remember what happened before those scurvy time travelers showed up, but no one else will unless some consideration is taken to incorporate Scale. The Death part is fine mechanically, I'm a bit iffy on thematics, but I wouldn't count it out.

        The third attainment is modeled on Veil of Moments I assume. So, one of the tricky bits of that particular spell is the inability to spend XP while under its effects. You might want to give some thought to that. It could be a quirk of their attainment that it doesn't matter, but you'll still want to think about it. For the Death part, I'd be tempted to make that a Death 4 ability since you're effectively doing a wholesale reshaping of your Pattern rather than just adding a quality to it (I think). Making it a Death 4 quality could potentially allow you to get away with including, "Oh, and also they can step into Twilight." It should be noted though that stepping into Twilight doesn't make you a ghost, for example unlike ghosts a normal Mage doesn't have their Vice and Virtue flipped, they gain no Manifestations, and they don't have Numina.

        Fifth attainment, Temporal Pocket is cool, but why? Something to travel back to the time they've chosen to prefer might be more appropriate. I realize this is technically impossible the way say, Corridors of Time works since it only allows you to travel within your own timeline rather than say back to to the 1600s.

        I'd like to note that in none of these attainments does Temporal Summoning show up, that could be a good 4th attainment since it was actually one of the powers that featured in the 1e version, but you can ditch the whole bit about the thing summoned being frail since Temporal Summoning in 2e doesn't give a damn about that.


        • #5
          Awesome, thanks for the excellent input! I will edit the post with those changes soon. I appreciate your help with this pet project.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
            The first attainment is a bit buggered, you can't have a Time 2 option available at Time 1.
            It's not a "Time 2 option," the spell in the book just points out that you can use Temporal Sympathy to view changed things once you hit Time 2 because that's the Time 2 attainment.

            @Kallarah: Postcognition doesn't have a "Time 2 version," it just synergizes with the Time 2 attainment Temporal Sympathy. Note, that while you can have this as the first attainment, the Reach must be spent on Sensory Range and it costs a point of Mana, meaning it takes a scene to activate the attainment.

            I agree with Mrmdubois that the Death 3 attainment makes more sense at Death 4, but either way I would remove the "Death counts as one less" restriction, it flat doesn't make sense in 2e.

            proin's Legacy hub


            • #7
              This is my conversion to 2nd edition

              The history and setting are the same as in the Mysterium book.

              Note: Each attainment creates a -1 dice penalty to use technology that has been invented within the last century - and has seen common use. (The fact that Di Vincci invented a helicopter is not an escape clause from this penalty.)

              Attainment 1) Remembering the Past
              Requirements: Time 1.
              This is based on the Divination rote (p 186).
              By spending (ritual casting) time with an item, holding it, and studying it, the Wraith can learn something about the object's past. The mage may ask (Potency) number of questions. The answers are limited to "Yes", "No" and "Irrelevant". The distance in the past that the Mage can ask the question is equal one's dots in Time on the Advanced Duration Chart. (i.e. 1 dot is within 1h before the ritual starts, 5 dots is within a year.)

              Optional: Death 1 Forensic Gaze - Line of Sight.

              Attainment 2) All Things Lost
              Requirement: Time 2
              This is based on the Post cognition rote (p 187).
              -Instant Cast
              -Advanced Duration
              The player names a specific time within the Duration (same reverse Duration as above).
              The player can see what is happening during that time period in real time. However, they are blind to what is happening in the present while viewing the past.

              Alternatively, the mage can see the "most important event" that happened to the object within the reverse duration.

              Optional: Death 2: Without a Trace (130) instant cast, self only.

              Attainment 3: Never Forward
              Requires Time 3 and Death 3
              Biological Suspension (a variant of the life spell Body Control pg 149)

              The breathing, heart beat and metabolism aspects of the spell function as if the the potency was equal the the character's level of Time.
              Other aspects of the spell do not exist as part of this legacy attainment.
              This attainment is always on.

              In addition, the character does not count as a living being for the purpose of the Life arcanum. This includes the ability to heal using Life magick. The equivalent Death magick can be used to heal the mage's body.

              Attainment 4: Temporal Appraisal
              Requirement: Time 4

              The mage may increase or decrease temporal sympathy of a target that she sees by 2 for up to one month. Temporal sympathy may never go below 0. Only one subject may be affected by this attainment at a time, but the mage may cancel its effects at any time.

              Optional: Death 4: Ghost Gate, instant cast.

              Attainment 5: Shadows of the Past
              Requirement: Time 5
              Replicates the Matter "Ex Nihilo" spell with it's reach (p159).
              After spending [ritual time] meditating on an item that has been viewed with the "All Things Lost" attainment, the mage can create a perfect replica of that item. Dots of Death are divided between the maximum number of hours the item lasts for + 1, and the object's size via the Standard Scale. For example, a mage with Death 5 could create a size 5 object for 1 h, a size 4 object for 2 h, size 3 for 3 h, etc. Only one such object can be duplicated at a time, and the item may be dispelled as a reflexive action. Time is used to determine Potency.

              In addition, for the cost of 1 mana, Infinite Duration may be accessed for the first two attainments. The attainments may not be used to see things in Lost Eras (i.e. Atlantis).

              My major criticism of this build:

              Tying how far one can look back in time to the Advanced Duration chart and dots of Time. I am unsure how to fix that and still be within the rules of 2.0