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How do I feed twenty, rank four spirits?

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  • #16
    Isn't the whole barganing chip a Fate conditional duration on the Rank boosting spell ? It would say something like "If you act against me or my cabal through direct or indirect means, through action or inaction, through lies or omission then the spell ends". Quite literally it says you made them powerful and you can take that power away, your interests are their interests now, because otherwise they will be weakened amidst a pack of jackals that will not let them rise to power again.
    Last edited by KaiserAfini; 04-23-2019, 01:40 PM.


    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
      Isn't the whole barganing chip a Fate conditional duration on the Rank boosting spell ? It would say something like "If you act against me or my cabal through direct or indirect means, through action or inaction, through lies or omission then the spell ends". Quite literally it says you made them powerful and you can take that power away, your interests are their interests now, because otherwise they will be weakened amidst a pack of jackals that will not let them rise to power again.
      So it's Game of Thrones instead of a blood bath.

      ...

      You know what I mean.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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      • #18
        So, all things said, it would be better to raise only maybe four rank two spirits into four, rank three spirits and call it and act of Hubris?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hemo_Liadon View Post
          So, all things said, it would be better to raise only maybe four rank two spirits into four, rank three spirits and call it and act of Hubris?
          Oh yeah. That's definitely more manageable and still has a lot of fun baked in.

          (Rank 3 anything tend to be the movers and shakers of any of the ephemeral entities, and four makes for potent drama without being drastically overpowered for any of the parties involved.)


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Hemo_Liadon View Post
            So, all things said, it would be better to raise only maybe four rank two spirits into four, rank three spirits and call it and act of Hubris?
            Sounds good. Remember that its technically only an Act of Hubris if the caster doesn't convince the spirits to be willingly transformed. Such as "I transform you to do this job for me and you will get a Rank boost while doing it , you are free to do whatever you with that power on your free time, so long as it doesn't affect me negatively". Then you add the Fate conditional duration to be safe. That should cover the Wisdom and tactical risks to your mage.


            New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


            The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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            • #21
              Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
              That should cover the Wisdom and tactical risks to your mage.
              It should cover the forcing-another-being-AoH, but it sounds extremely Unwise granting extra power to spirits without any kind of accountability as long as it doesn't affect you personally. I'd very much recommend for the ST to show the consequences of upsetting the local spirit hierarchy in that way. Especially if any of the spirits usually hunt for Essence in critical locales like hospitals, courthouses or media offices; places where a shift in process effectivity (treatments or diseases), decision making (trials) or even bias (for political coverage) can have big effects when the spirit starts flinging Influences around to produce more Essence of its own liking.
              And remember that even seemingly benign spirits can cause disruption and damage when trying to secure sources of Essence, like a spirit of healing making sure there always are enough people who need to be healed.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #22
                Well yes, that is a given, spirits are beings of extremes. Those measures should cover immediate AoHs, but whether the situation escalates into something that causes more or worse potential instances depends on how much followup he gives the whole situation and how well he adapts to monkey wrenches in his plans. Which probably means its just a matter of time, no plan survives contact with the players intact.


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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                • #23
                  Is there anything wrong with loving spirits? My old ST kept getting upset that I enjoy spirits even if they're dangerous. I feel like they're not TOO alien but my STs opinion was that if the players don't feel confused and terrified of spirits no matter how experienced you are, the ST has failed to make them "alien".

                  But I don't see why. Spirits make sense to me, is that wrong or bad playing if I feel like I can understand their motivations?

                  They'res a lot of nuance sure but, Spirits aren't *that* complicated are they? They just seek to maximize their survival and their essence hoarding, and seem to me classic simplified examples of the Rules to Rule By.

                  I haven't had a chance to play it out exactly but my motivation as a player is usually to become involved in spiritual hierarchies and gain my own court... Much like the character for whom this thread discusses.

                  Is that a guaranteed issue? My old ST thought something like that should only be allowed if you are a Seer of the Throne...

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                  • #24
                    I agree, spirits are awesome. They are a living picture of the emotional panorama of an area, they are ideas that seek to grow, to spread. They are beings that evolve as their ideas prosper, growing in power, skill and Intelligence to heights that are worrying to humanity. They are at once predator, prey and parasite, living in a complex mixture of the food chain and politics.

                    Yet they are also alien, with a different perspective, priorities and instincts to humans. They are not social beings, they are predators. But there are just enough intersections for humans to understand them, enough power to tempt, enough rope for any mortal to hang themselves with when they are incorporated into the ecosystem.

                    They are beings of extremes, some better at donning the masque of civility than others, some more alien their peers. A hospital spirit will look more bizarre than the spirits of monuments, for example. But all of them are obsessive.
                    Last edited by KaiserAfini; 04-24-2019, 06:42 PM.


                    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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                    • #25
                      I think your old ST should put that energy into making Abyssal entities more "alien".

                      The "issue" I see with that motivation is that it'll easily make the mage slide into Unwise behaviour, but that's certainly not something the Seers have monopoly on.
                      The other actual issue is that it might be a solo venture in a cooperative game. Other players might not be interested (or even capable since players tend to avoid the Spirit Arcanum completely if they have no interest in spirits and the Shadow) and then you draw time and attention away from group activities if you attempt to pursue that during sessions. Not applicable in solo games, though, or if the entire group wants to much around with spirits, and not even a problem in more common groups if the ST is okay with having solo sessions on the side for side activities.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nofather View Post
                        That's where they get their Essence. They have to guard him from something. Fortunately as Rank 4 spirits they can strongarm minor spirits and drive non-ephemerals into helping out the cause.
                        Read: Sparrow should expect a lot of "random" encounters in her life for her entourage to conveniently be there to protect her from.

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                        • #27
                          Thank you everyone for the amazing help! I've always been a little nervous posting on forums because many of them are pretty unwelcoming... So, thank you all for your help with my first question on the Forum!!!

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                          • #28
                            Why the hell would she need 20 spirits? Even if they started as rank 2 I kinda think the correct answer is to let them wreak havoc. She clearly hasn't considered how difficult it is to keep pets if she has that many of them.

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