Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bringing Mage 2e improvements into Mage 1e

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bringing Mage 2e improvements into Mage 1e

    For various reasons I'm not a fan of the core rules on which Mage 2e is built, my players even more so. However, I also recognize that some large improvements have been made to Mage's mechanics in 2e.

    I was wondering what mechanics and ideas people feel translate well from Mage 2e back to Mage 1e. What works, what doesn't, etc. Obviously, I'd prefer changes that require little to no work to translate.

  • #2
    I don't get it, the core of the game is still the same, roll a pool of d10s if you get 8 or above you succeed.

    Comment


    • #3
      I mean, I'll be frank? I'd rather just use 2E straight out of the box. Unless I have some idea of what your playgroup finds divisive, I'm going to tell you to just use 2E. That's where I stand with this non-information.

      What is actually your problem?


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Look the big difference between the two is one version I have players willing to play and the other I do not. Beyond that it does not matter.

        Comment


        • #5
          Okay, just stick with 1e then, that's pretty much the only solution. Because what you're dealing with here is not actually a mechanics issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hark View Post
            Look the big difference between the two is one version I have players willing to play and the other I do not. Beyond that it does not matter.
            Hark.

            Most people who think 2e did good just switched to playing 2e. Back-translating it into a system from ten years earlier is work that most people don't bother with. You've expressed a clear inclination against doing any of the necessary work for a full conversion, which is fine, but that means we need details to be able to start doing any of that work for you on account of how none of us are already privy to the specifics of why you and your table don't like 2e.

            You're not telling us anything new by saying that the big difference is the thing you told us at the top of the thread. This is the kind of work you have to do to get collaboration on problem-solving. It matters.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

            Comment


            • #7
              Aspirations
              Breaking points
              Conditions
              Beats
              Social Maneuvering
              Chases
              Tilts
              Down and Dirty Combat
              All weapons deal lethal damage.

              I'm sure there are a thousand little things I don't pick up on a quick scroll through of the Chronicles of Darkness PDF. The core mechanics changed and in some cases rather dramatically. The fact that you don't recognize this tells me you either never played the old rules or have long history of playing fast and loose with the rules and so don't really know them.

              Either way you are not being helpful.

              Now Mage 2e has some magic changes that may well be worth incorporating. I can do it on my own, but I'd like it if I could get some help from people that have experience with both rules sets.

              Comment


              • #8
                You’re probably going to have to do it on your own.


                Dave Brookshaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  *Looks at the list.* It appears we would be rewriting nearly the whole damn book.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hark View Post
                    Aspirations
                    Breaking points
                    Conditions
                    Beats
                    Social Maneuvering
                    Chases
                    Tilts
                    Down and Dirty Combat
                    All weapons deal lethal damage.

                    I'm sure there are a thousand little things I don't pick up on a quick scroll through of the Chronicles of Darkness PDF. The core mechanics changed and in some cases rather dramatically. The fact that you don't recognize this tells me you either never played the old rules or have long history of playing fast and loose with the rules and so don't really know them.

                    Either way you are not being helpful.

                    Now Mage 2e has some magic changes that may well be worth incorporating. I can do it on my own, but I'd like it if I could get some help from people that have experience with both rules sets.
                    Question: is this intended to be a list of differences you see between 1e and 2e, or is it a list of things that you want to backport from 2e to 1e? I’m suspecting the former. I think people are well aware of the differences between the two editions; what’s not clear is what you see in 2e that you’d like to adapt for use in 1e.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hark View Post
                      The fact that you don't recognize this tells me you either never played the old rules or have long history of playing fast and loose with the rules and so don't really know them.

                      Either way you are not being helpful.
                      Woah there, let's hold with the accusations. I think this was more of a miscommunication.

                      We all didn't particularly understand what you meant by "Core Rules on which Mage 2e is built". I don't know about the others but, to me that read as "The Core Rules of Mage 2e" where now I understand that you mean "The Core Rules of CofD 2e".

                      If I were to give a list of things I would port over:
                      • How Paradox is handled (more streamlined)
                      • How magic works (ie Reach & dice pool which is inherently connected to Paradox so you'll need both if you want one of them)
                      • Lore behind Magic (Supernal/Abyss as symbols/anti-symbols. Makes it easier to explain magic working like matter/anti-matter)
                      • Mage society (it's a bit easier to configure for local, regional, and global level play)
                      • How Attainments work (it's nice to have "General Powers for the Awakened" like Shields and dis-spell)
                      • How Souls/Soul-loss works (warning, this does not work without at least some conditions. This change helps a lot of Death magic as well as Astral)
                      • Add in Obsessions (warning, this does not work without beats but you can try to hack it into Arcane Experience rather than Arcane Beats. Obsessions give a lot of purpose and drive to characters)
                      • Verges/Demesne mechanics (it's more straight forward than 1st ed)
                      • Manifestation Conditions for Ephemeral Entities (warning, this requires conditions. But it makes ephemeral entities WAAY easier to use structurally than 1st Ed)
                      • Summoning (much more straight forward, requires manifestation conditions)
                      That's what I can think of right now. TBH, my suggestion would be one of the following:
                      1. Use 1st Edition wholly. That way you have none of the CofD 2e rules and no work is needed to bring in the above ports.
                      2. Use 2nd Edition wholly. That way there's no work to hack things in. If you want most or all of the above ports, I would suggest this option as it may be worth dealing with the CofD 2e rules you don't like for the ease of using Mage 2e rules easier.
                      3. Use 1st Edition with Ported material. I'd recommend this one if there's very little of the above ports you'd want (and there for less and less work to port it in the first place).
                      4. Use 2nd Edition and Port in nWoD 1e material. This one's the weirdest one but it may work depending on what you don't like about CofD 2e mateirial. This would likely be the maximum amount of home-brewing. (could be that you use 2nd Ed everything with the exception of: Non-Manifestation Conditions don't exist, Baseball Bats do Bashing, 1st Edition style Experience Points rather than Beats.)



                      Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow this is getting tense.

                        Look, I don't like where this is going but I'll try my best.

                        The two things I'd recommend bringing from 2e to 1e are the Manifestations for ephemerals, and, the Reach mechanics to replace the nightmare that vulgar/covert magic is.

                        Focus there, try it, if not, stick with 1e.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yantras are another big change between the editions, consolidating and standardizing a bunch of different things from 1e.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hark View Post
                            Look the big difference between the two is one version I have players willing to play and the other I do not. Beyond that it does not matter.
                            I mean, it does. If the problem is "I don't like Second Edition", you solve that by playing First Edition, if the problem is "I don't like First Edition" you solve that by playing Second Edition.

                            Anything beyond that requires an actual address of What the Fucking Problem Is, because otherwise you're asking us to hit a target in dark blue pajamas that's flying through the night while we're drunk, discombobulated, and wondering why we're in Texas, read "asking us to do something when we have no fucking clue what we're out to to do"

                            From what you have posted since this post, the real answer is to play 1st Edition, because the problems seem to be with the foundational structures that form 2nd Edition's fundamental support and directions and basically I, at the least, wouldn't bother fucking around with that when it's easier for you just play 1st Edition than shift the entire foundation.

                            In the mean time, don't waste our time if you aren't going to give us the tools we need to help you. You wanna raise an issue, it's on you to be clear about it.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hark View Post
                              Aspirations
                              Breaking points
                              Conditions
                              Beats
                              Social Maneuvering
                              Chases
                              Tilts
                              Down and Dirty Combat
                              All weapons deal lethal damage.
                              Ok so you do not want any of the core rules but the Mage specific changes. So just import the whole magic system. It is just vastly superior and players with a little experience will go from "I use that specific spell from the book" to "I cast a spell that does this...". I think it is possible to to this with little effort. You just have to tweek the spells which affect core rules a little bit and find solutions for stuff like the magic armors, since armor and defense work differently in 1st and 2nd.
                              I also do think that is kind of ridiculous to do this, since incorporation just all of 2nd Edition seems easier for me than just a large part of it. If you want to do only very little changes, I do not think the effort would be worth it, since you will not change the gaming experience much.
                              Last edited by HardcoreHannes; 05-16-2019, 04:00 AM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X