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How does Channel Essence Work?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    I was in that thread as well, and the supposition that Resonant is broken in the game where spirits are the only things interacting with it as a source of Essence remains an odd one to me.
    1.) It still leads to weird behaviours, such as low ranking Loci producing less Essence than regular Resonant Conditions despite Loci being "watering holes" for spirits.

    2.) Resonant/gorging as a standard system (rather than an optional system; it still works as a shortcut for STs, especially in CofD) means there are no rules modelling the actual Essence flows across the Gauntlet. It means that any player interactions or manipulations of these flows relies heavily on ST fiat. For example, the creation of a Locus requires the stockpiling of Essence over time (something Uratha is said to be able to facilitate) but without Essence flow mechanisms there are no rules for how Essence stockpiles.

    3.) If I wanted to rehash this conversation, I would've restated my points in this conversation instead of decidedly pointing towards another conversation. "I have already expressed my thoughts and you can find them in that direction if you want to read them."

    Closing thoughts:
    My philosophy is that the characters, and in extension the players, interact with the game world through the rules. Despite this I realise that parts of the world that is less interesting for the game has to be simplified due to both word count and the flow of the game itself; much is even omitted completely because it's just not interesting.
    In CofD, Resonant/gorging works because it's not necessary to model the Shadow and Essence economy in that game. WtF and MtA, however, includes the Shadow as an important realm The Shadow, and the spirit/Essence ecology/economy, within is largely defined based on Essence flows across the Gauntlet. The continued simplification away from how the setting is stated to work* means that neither werewolves nor Spirit mages, both groups that should have vested interests in these matters, can actually interact with this fundamental system, which leads to my examples and OP's infinite Essence/Mana source. It leads to the players interacting with a setting that is decidedly different from the intended and stated setting.

    *By simplification I mean the always uncapped Essence production of Resonant Conditions for anyone who draws from them, and the lack of rules for normal Essence flows. As far as I know gorging is supposed to be part of the setting and, if so, should still coexist, though probably less efficiently, alongside moderated Essence flows.
    Last edited by Tessie; 06-25-2019, 06:48 AM.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tessie
      1.) It still leads to weird behaviours, such as low ranking Loci producing less Essence than regular Resonant Conditions despite Loci being "watering holes" for spirits.
      "This place is a persistent Resonant Condition that also produces a set amount of Essence each day that can be accessed through physical contact with the focal point in the material world or consuming the strange foodstuffs that appear around it in the Shadow" solves that rather neatly.

      2.) Resonant/gorging as a standard system (rather than an optional system; it still works as a shortcut for STs, especially in CofD) means there are no rules modelling the actual Essence flows across the Gauntlet. It means that any player interactions or manipulations of these flows relies heavily on ST fiat. For example, the creation of a Locus requires the stockpiling of Essence over time (something Uratha is said to be able to facilitate) but without Essence flow mechanisms there are no rules for how Essence stockpiles.
      We know the rate at which a locus produces Essence, we know that individual sources of Resonance can supply at least one point per day, and we know that forming a one-dot locus requires an approximate amount of Essence to sit undisturbed for a week, which werewolves can facilitate by keeping spirits away from the location.

      In practical terms, that means a werewolf pack looking to form a locus keeps an area isolated and limits and concentrates the concepts that occupy it for many weeks or months. After that first dot is established there is a consistent rate at which the locus will produce Essence that can build toward its own expansion or be used by werewolves.

      Most of the rest of the game's systems for Essence flow revolve around the fact that it's being generated (sometimes from temporary circumstances, sometimes from persistent metaphysical confluences) and the fact that spirits can tell where it is from nearby.

      3.) If I wanted to rehash this conversation, I would've restated my points in this conversation instead of decidedly pointing towards another conversation. "I have already expressed my thoughts and you can find them in that direction if you want to read them."
      Fortunately, you and I are not the only ones in this conversation, which was why I linked to the discussion in question for people who didn't see it and am continuing to build my case for anyone else who's reading along.

      *By simplification I mean the always uncapped Essence production of Resonant Conditions for anyone who draws from them, and the lack of rules for normal Essence flows. As far as I know gorging is supposed to be part of the setting and, if so, should still coexist, though probably less efficiently, alongside moderated Essence flows.
      The limiting factor has pretty much always been political rather than metaphysical — spirits are greedy with Essence because spirits who allow other spirits to feed from Resonance they've staked a claim to empower their rivals, not because there's only a set amount of Catness or Roadocity to go around.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        Fortunately, you and I are not the only ones in this conversation, which was why I linked to the discussion in question for people who didn't see it and am continuing to build my case for anyone else who's reading along.
        I was, however, the only one you quoted. And I've also made it abundantly clear that I don't wish to pursue this discussion, explaining and reinforcing that fact, yet you continue to reply to me directly. Longer discussions with you are tiring, and even trying to exit those conversations is emotionally draining. I saw "Satchel quoted you in a post" in my notifications and put off replying for a day just to gather enough energy to put up with this again.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tessie View Post
          I was, however, the only one you quoted.[…] I saw "Satchel quoted you in a post" in my notifications
          I had been under the mistaken impression that removing the part of the Quote tag that creates a link to the quoted post would cause it to not produce a message notification and now know better. Thank you for bringing that to my attention and I apologize for the difficulty my insufficient degree of consideration produced.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • #20
            Going by the locus formation rules in Werewolf it looks like a given Resonant Condition produces 20-ish Essence per day.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              Going by the locus formation rules in Werewolf it looks like a given Resonant Condition produces 20-ish Essence per day.
              I think that's premised on an assumption that the threshold and the minimum timeframe are connected — forming a one-dot locus requires a certain amount of Essence to have accumulated for at least a week, but that doesn't imply that accumulating that amount of Essence takes a week.

              The un-engineered form of the process still makes reference to the Essence building up, and the general inertia of Shadow-stuff inclines me to read the text's "individual ecstasy or private tragedy" as "Resonance sticks around until something else crowds it out, so a powerful emotional response in an isolated location can echo back on itself to form a locus months later on the simple strength of the narrative of that location not being moved to a different subject."


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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