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Signs: clarifying imbue item clarifications

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  • Signs: clarifying imbue item clarifications

    I wanted to make sure I’m understanding part of this right? What is the advantage of spending the double successes on a flexible reach when imbuing an item. It seems like it only works when you keep spell control of it, and further in the clarifications it says if you have spell control you can use the flexible reach without the success. Am I reading this wrong somehow?

  • #2
    It's confusingly worded, but:
    • If the Imbuer maintains spell control of the item
    • and it was imbued with Flexible reach
    • and someone other than the creator is activating the item
    • then the activator can alter reach


    Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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    • #3
      Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
      It's confusingly worded, but:
      • If the Imbuer maintains spell control of the item
      • and it was imbued with Flexible reach
      • and someone other than the creator is activating the item
      • then the activator can alter reach
      If that’s the intent then how would that be usually used?

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      • #4
        I kind of feel that any well-designed imbued item is going to be optimized for its intended use and that the flexible reach really isn't that great.

        However, it could also maybe be used to create tense or undercover situations where someone imbues an item and sends it to an npc (or vice versa) to be used in a specific circumstance. Like, say, you want to cast a spell at a certain site, but you cannot go there yourself, but you can send a proxy, and you trust them to use the imbued item correctly, but you're not sure what reach will be needed when the user gets there.

        I'm sure there are other reasons someone would want that option, but, "operating through proxies" who need the tool to be versatile on behalf of the imbuer? Seems the most obvious application to me...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Therian View Post

          If that’s the intent then how would that be usually used?
          I don't think it's particularly useful. If you can dictate spell factors then reducing reach is irrelevant, every reach option is an "up to" not an "exactly," at least that's my reading.


          Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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          • #6
            The Flexible Reach, as the name implies, seems to increase the User's versatility (instead of power). For example, the caster can alter the spell's factor from a number of subjects to Area or alter some Spell Reach for spells like "Shared Fate" so that the caster can use whichever version of the spell they want.

            Disclaimer: I am a month's paycheck before getting the book myself.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Shadowjim12 View Post
              The Flexible Reach, as the name implies, seems to increase the User's versatility (instead of power). For example, the caster can alter the spell's factor from a number of subjects to Area or alter some Spell Reach for spells like "Shared Fate" so that the caster can use whichever version of the spell they want.

              Disclaimer: I am a month's paycheck before getting the book myself.
              It does not do any of that. It only allows the user to reduce the number of Reaches used. You can reduce Advanced Spell Factors to Basic and remove Reach options for spells that use those. Doing so does not reduce Paradox risk, if any.

              By the way, switching between number of subjects or AoE isn't something that requires a Reach, and it's already up to the item's user to determine spell factors so it'd be redundant.

              For something that doubles the required amount of successes for imbuing an item, it's remarkably lacklustre, bordering on useless. The only potential use I can see is if you imbue an item with a spell that uses a spell specific Reach option (since it's not a spell factor it's always on) that you may not always want on or be able to just ignore.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Yes. It's crap.

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                • #9
                  Yeah, It almost feels like it was intended to be available to items that were relinquished but there's an error or something.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Therian View Post
                    Yeah, It almost feels like it was intended to be available to items that were relinquished but there's an error or something.
                    That wouldn't really change the fact that the benefits for Flexible Reach is basically nonexistent outside of fringe cases.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                    • #11
                      Nope. No error. It's so you can take the optional Reach effects off spells that were imbued with them, making the item more flexible. Your "but it's only really useful for X!" falls down when yes, X is exactly what it's meant for.


                      Dave Brookshaw

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                        Nope. No error. It's so you can take the optional Reach effects off spells that were imbued with them, making the item more flexible. Your "but it's only really useful for X!" falls down when yes, X is exactly what it's meant for.
                        It says it can be used for X and Y. While X (removing Reach options) seems like it can be useful in a very small amount of cases, Y (reverting spell factors to basic) seems to be literally worthless. That naturally casts doubt on whether the entire thing was thought out properly.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's most useful when the user is a Sleepwalker or low-Gnosis mage who's been given an unrelinquished item by a mentor-figure, and when the Reach Effects that Flexible Reach lets the user toggle off cost Mana.

                          Like, if you're a Gnosis 1 guy who's running low on your personal pool and you're trying to use a Healing Item your master leant you that only has five Mana capacity, each time that item casts "Mend" costing two Mana every time is significantly less useful than being able to say "the injury isn't aggravated. It only costs 1".



                          Dave Brookshaw

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                          • #14
                            I get that part. My own example would've been Celestial Fire and not necessarily wanting to ignite your target. I still wonder about Advanced to Basic spell factors since spell factors are already decided on by the user.


                            Bloodline: The Stygians
                            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                              It's most useful when the user is a Sleepwalker or low-Gnosis mage who's been given an unrelinquished item by a mentor-figure, and when the Reach Effects that Flexible Reach lets the user toggle off cost Mana.

                              Like, if you're a Gnosis 1 guy who's running low on your personal pool and you're trying to use a Healing Item your master leant you that only has five Mana capacity, each time that item casts "Mend" costing two Mana every time is significantly less useful than being able to say "the injury isn't aggravated. It only costs 1".
                              Thanks for elaborating. Now that I know the intent I can see it. Also, the books great and its only because all the player in my game are so into all the new options that the question even came up.

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