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NEED HELP! Can this spell be made?

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  • NEED HELP! Can this spell be made?

    So, my ST and I are both new to the game and are trying to work out whether or not a spell I desire would work in the game, and if so then how so. But we're kind of stuck, so I thought I would ask you guys.

    What I want to do is this:
    Subject A casts his/her spell targeting Subject B.
    I then cast a spell, which redirects Sucject A's spell to a target of my choosing.

    Knowing what Subject A's spell is actually intended to do is not a requirement, nor do I want to hinder it. I just want to steer it from the intended target to another target. Merely rebounding it, so to speak.

    Do you consider this to be something that can be done, and if so, what would you rule would be the spells requirements?

  • #2
    I'd only allow a Scelestus attainment to do that, that's way, way too powerful.

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    • #3
      Altering the spell factors of another Mage's spell was impossible before archmastery in 1E - and nothing in 2E seems to suggest that that's changed afaik.

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      • #4
        All right. We'll look at other avenues then Thanks for your responses
        The character is kind of an agent of chaos, so we were looking for something to subvert the intentions of enemies and adding something to the combat aspect that isn't just "We attack, Enemies attack rinse and repeat" :P

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        • #5
          Sounds too powerful, I am not even sure if it falls on any of the Practices. I think the closest thing you could do is trick the caster by using something like Impostor to make them think you are the intended target, but that does not lead itself to improptu use.

          The problem is that it gives justification for a player or enemy to usurp agency over one of the biggest draws of the game, in a way which cannot be easily countered. Its not an alternative to an attack that can be quickly solved (like a Psychic Command) or rolepayed around (like Psychic Reprogramming or Strings of Fate).

          If the option becomes open to players, it becomes open to enemies. After all, turnaround is fair play. So it may not be enjoyable when its turned against your players' cabal.

          At the end of the day, you can always choose to allow it at your table. But I wanted to present the possible consequences of doing so.


          New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


          The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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          • #6
            Mage is kinda overflowing with things to do in combat besides attack. Fate and Mind in particular can do a lot to influence the flow of combat if you want to mess with your opponents indirectly rather than through damage.

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            • #7
              I'd recommend making such an effect a Boon from Supernal Summoning (Mage: the Awakening 2nd Ed, page 94; Signs of Sorcery, page 39). This means it could only be used a limited number of times and you would have to perform a Summoning to "restock".


              ~

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              • #8
                Perfected Sympathy accomplishes something similar to this idea with a Reach effect. It works by using Sympathy as a vector of redirection, and because Perfected Sympathy allows you to have Sympathy that’s crafted to make your Sympathy indistinguishable from the Sympathy of your subjects. So for this to work I’d say you need to figure out a viable vector to allow redirection, and meet the requirement of having yourself somehow indistinguishable from the subject you wish to redirect a spell to.

                Edit: Fate also has a similar spell with Shared Fate, though it takes more “work” to set it up so harm done to you actually gets done to someone/thing else.

                So, not too powerful at all, and doable, and there are even some rough guidelines in at least a couple of the given spells.

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                • #9
                  You cannot effect the Imago of another Mage. You can affect their Mind with Imposter, and the Imago starts in your mind, but the Imago's true nature is realized through your gnosis and supernal connections, which cannot be targetted once the dice are rolled and success is had.

                  You can try and stop a spell from being cast but once the dice get thrown you are out of luck.

                  The Scelesti suggestion is a cool one too.


                  NOW THEN. I have *done this exact same thing* even just recently in a game, but as the others said it requires archmastery, which is exactly what happened. And not even archmasters can do this easily! They require an "ingredient" that requires a lot of leg work to get, a quest if you will. So my player had to plan out this elaborate trap and find this "quintessence" in advance to even pull this off, and that was for an Archmaster of Prime! And the trap had to remain secret too.

                  Players will usually never accomplish such a feat without archmastery and a lot of planning, nothing is available to you for an agent of chaos who does it impulsively on the fly, all the other half-options require planning and setting up before the other character has even cast their spell.


                  But if it comes up again, an Aeon, or a gulmoth of great power, could pull this off easier, but even Scelesti with an exotic power of some kind typically have to "harvest" paradox successes from somewhere to do this. But an Aeon or a rank 4 or higher gulmoth I could see doing this sort of thing on the fly.

                  But none of those are situations a Wise Mage looking forward to a long life should eeeverrrr do.


                  One last thing. If changing Imagos were available to conventional magic, the Seer-Pentacle war wouldnt exist, one side would have won by now.

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                  • #10
                    You don't need to change the imago to redirect a spell. There are examples of it in the core.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                      You don't need to change the imago to redirect a spell. There are examples of it in the core.
                      They were still not quite what I think all this had in mind. I more mean someone uses sensory range unmake life on you but then they die without you having any spells on them before hand, only yourself. I wouldn't think something like shared fate could do that with something that doesn't strictly handle conditions and damage, especially on the fly without preprep?

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                      • #12
                        True, both examples I mentioned involve having a spell with multiple subjects already active.

                        I could see a Prime spell that redirects Aimed spells, but that's addressing a pretty specific set of circumstances as well.

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                        • #13
                          Perhaps a different spell would result in the same result. I dont know if this would work but what if you used a counterspell-like action* to change the intended target (A) with another target of your choosing. This line of action bypasses the changing the imago problem, but you have to have all targets within line of sight or have the necessary spacial yantra.
                          The spell is withstood by both targets and possibly by a clash of wills

                          * Either an attainment or a prepared (time+fate) spell - or a completely new spell

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                          • #14
                            On the "utterly fair game" side of things, redirecting an aimed spell should be a Space/Prime thing. Possibly an attainment upgrade option from Prime to Space's Mage Armor.


                            Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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                            • #15
                              I think that "hacking" a spell that's already in place should be fair game, but interfering with a spell before it comes into effect doesn't really work. The way I see it, there's no "timing window", either spell does not exist yet, and thus can't be affected, or it does and its already taking effect. It's a discrete, binary state. As people have mentioned, I think creating that sort of "window" would require Archmastery.

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