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The Limits Of Endless Bounty

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  • The Limits Of Endless Bounty

    The Spell Endless Bounty from Signs of Sorcery causes a container to not run out of expendable items. It specifically calls out bullets, dollar bills, and gasoline. The target of the Spell is the container of items not the items. But are the things taken from the container Lasting? If you buy something with money from a wallet that's under the effects of Endless Bounty, does the money disappear at some point?

  • #2
    I'd say that the duration on the container is still the determining factor on how long those items last, unless their symbology transforms in the Supernal, like burning gas would.

    IF NOT and they are lasting, counterfeiting is still illegal.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post
      counterfeiting is still illegal.
      Use coins, they don't have serial numbers. Or have a box of unlimited gold chunks.

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      • #4
        Yeah. The excess stuff generated would last for the Duration of the spell I’d say.

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        • #5
          Could you put some of your blood in a container, cast endless bounty, and then feed it to a vampire?

          Would the blood loose something in translation, such that a vampire wouldnt get nourishment? Does it become mundane blood, instead og "mage blood"?

          What about perfected blood? Or other perfected materials?

          Does the spell only affect mundane objects or is what it produces only mundane?

          Could I make an endless bottle of magical potion or clip of enchanted bullets?
          Last edited by Justaman; 03-28-2021, 12:25 AM.

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          • #6
            Affecting blood requires conjunctional Life 3.

            Blood loses its supernatural value unless supernaturally preserved.

            Perfected blood can, as all other materials, act as an ideal version of the base. Therefore, it possesses properties like being universally compatible with any receiving person or providing nutrition to vampires.

            Since perfected materials occur naturally, but in very rare quantities, they are perfectly valid candidates for replication. Utilizing such a spell must be common when creating high quality imbued itens, Libertine circuitry (perfected gold and copper), Arrow defenses or even Mystagogue lab equipment.

            Based on all that, you could make a clip of enhanced bullets or a never depleting healing potion by layering spells.

            In addition, experimenting in creating a first aid kit with perfected components could also prove useful. Perfected gauze could stabilize a patient instantly and perfected morphine could dull pain entirely without producing side effects.

            Lastly, you could always preemptively cast spells that reduce healing times by half (or a quarter with a Reach). With high enough Potency (such as taking your time for multiple ritual times), you could outpace werewolf healing by a terrifying amount.

            Hope that helps
            Last edited by KaiserAfini; 03-28-2021, 12:17 PM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Justaman View Post
              Could you put some of your blood in a container, cast endless bounty, and then feed it to a vampire?

              Would the blood loose something in translation, such that a vampire wouldnt get nourishment? Does it become mundane blood, instead og "mage blood"?

              What about perfected blood? Or other perfected materials?

              Does the spell only affect mundane objects or is what it produces only mundane?

              Could I make an endless bottle of magical potion or clip of enchanted bullets?
              Magical items are outside of the spell. You'd just make the potion or bullets without the magical quality to them.

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              • #8
                I think it's reasonable to say that whatever quality in blood becomes Vitae once consumed by a vampire is not precisely operating in terms that Awakened magic can readily grasp or replicate. I'd say that's particular in Second Edition because the way it's phrased, Vitae isn't even really something that originate outside of the vampire, blood becomes it in the process of passing through their Beast-infused self. The quantity that translates directly to Vitae might be better thought of in terms of what satisfied the Beast than something nutritional, and while the Beast craves all blood its preference is for what is warm and straight from the human vein. I wouldn't say that Supernal magic is operating on a frame of reference that quite captures the quality the Beast wants, and that it's an aspect of the vampire Pattern that can't be touched in a way that will trick or placate it.

                It's like, you can preserve and modify the blood in whatever ways, but there's no getting around the Beast knowing it's not coming straight out of a human, in which case it still accepts only grudgingly.

                ... That said, technically a container that is continuously pouring a font of uncoagulated human blood will eventually suffice to provide enough. The weakest vampire in the world just has to stand there pouring twenty gallons down their throat continuously in the event that they have to go from empty to full. It's not exactly dignified, and might be said to lack the usual thrills of feeding.

                Besides, it's not as if they're wanting for blood, it's everywhere.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  I'd say that's particular in Second Edition because the way it's phrased, Vitae isn't even really something that originate outside of the vampire, blood becomes it in the process of passing through their Beast-infused self.
                  Not quite. Second edition is very clear that Vitae does originate in people and that people only contain a limited amount of Vitae. What you did nail, though, is that Vitae is not blood. Blood is just the medium (and not even the only possible medium), but if the blood comes from a source that doesn't contain Vitae (such as any blood that doesn't somehow originate from a living being) then the blood won't be nourishing in the slightest.
                  Vitae seems to be straight up life-force, or something similar. How much Vitae is gained is directly proportional to the amount of damage inflicted, and the amount of Vitae available is similarly directly proportional to the victim's Health boxes (for animals it instead depends on Size, which is generally the more important factor when it comes to deriving Health). The vampire then concentrates the ingested Vitae into the fuel trait. With age, vampires needs more and more concentrated Vitae in order to process it, meaning they lose the ability to gain any from animals (that contain the least amount of Vitae), and then humans so that they're forced to drink already concentrated Vitae from other vampires or find some other mystical solution to their hunger (which generally means drinking from vampires in special ways, regaining the ability to drink from humans without expending massive amounts of effort, or drinking from supernatural beings).


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                    Second edition is very clear that Vitae does originate in people
                    Could you point me in the direction of that clarity? I've honestly looked over the book a few times, and while its writing style is quite compelling it doesn't quite make for the easiest honing in on particular details.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                      Could you point me in the direction of that clarity? I've honestly looked over the book a few times, and while its writing style is quite compelling it doesn't quite make for the easiest honing in on particular details.
                      I can't find a clear quote on that now that I look, but I still think it's pretty clear from how feeding works: Draining Vitae from a person inflicts damage equal to the Vitae taken, Strix drains Vitae without even taking any blood, people can only provide a limited number of Vitae (equal to their Health boxes rather than anything that would imply that it's the vampire who can only get a limited amount due to needing to taste different blood or something like that), and people who are soulless outright doesn't provide Vitae.
                      You can get Vitae from stored blood, but the amount of blood needed is ridiculously high, implying that there's only trace amounts of Vitae in blood that's drawn outside of feeding.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                        Draining Vitae from a person inflicts damage equal to the Vitae taken
                        Well they are extracting blood.

                        Originally posted by Tessie
                        Strix drains Vitae without even taking any blood
                        But they're still eating something out of the victim in a manner that could be read as Vitae being in the transition from their satisfaction feeding.

                        Originally posted by Tessie
                        people can only provide a limited number of Vitae (equal to their Health boxes rather than anything that would imply that it's the vampire who can only get a limited amount due to needing to taste different blood or something like that)
                        I wasn't suggesting it was different between individuals, just reading into what could be different between fresh living human blood and the stored sterile stuff.

                        Mind, individuals technically are different; actual physical blood is being extracted and every adult human has about the same amount of that, but people with more Stamina can provide more Vitae which might imply more is being acquired for less blood (although the meaning of that could go either way).

                        Originally posted by Tessie
                        people who are soulless outright doesn't provide Vitae.
                        Having managed to only just find that, it seems a tad ambiguous whether that applies for vampires as well as Strix. At least on its own in the core.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                        • #13
                          Well, the Producer merit could be seen as an example for the fact that Vitae is treated as originating from the person and not the vampire. Like, I don't think it is outright stated that Vitae is a quality that comes from the person and not the vampire, but vampires are parasitic beings which drain the living from something in order to sustain their own existence. It is much more appropriate, IMO, that Vitae comes from other people and the vampire is stealing it from them instead of having some kind of alchemical processor which transforms blood into Vitae. Vitae is literally life, after all, and it vampires are undead and lack that vital energy, and as such must steal it from those who are living. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated, so unless the text actually says "the vampire transforms stolen blood into Vitae", I'm leaning more into reading it as "the vampire refines the lifeforce from the appropriate medium- and in the case of the Kindred, it's blood". The strix, as stated, drain breath, and the Formosae of Wicked Dead drain emotions IIRC, not to mention things like the Mnemevores, which just eat memories.


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                          • #14
                            I find myself thinking that the significance of all of this from a Mage point of view is that the exact mechanism of it is unclear when viewed at surface level and a willworker who becomes interested in learning more about it may want to conduct experiments and make observations to get a better idea of exactly what Vitae is and where it originates. Seems like a good basis for collaborating with a member of the Ordo Dracul. Whatever a given Storyteller decides about the metaphysics (or the snippets of information they throw out to allow the player to invent the explanation from their own reasoning), the process of arriving at it in something close to a definitive manner should take some time and involvement.

                            I think there's enough there for different tables to come to different conclusions, whether it be a occult investigation oriented Vampire game, a Mage one or crossover between the two.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                            • #15
                              Back on topic, if I pour out my endless water bottle until the room is flooded up to my ankles that’s a pretty hefty change in the environment. All that water isn’t going to disappear the moment I let the bottle finally run dry.

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