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Fallen reflections of the Supernal Realms

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  • Fallen reflections of the Supernal Realms

    So I had an idea partially inspired by the Supernal Arcadia/Changeling Arcadia divide. Each of the five known Supernal Realms has a fallen reflection. The fallen reflection of Stygia is the Underworld. The fallen reflection of the Primal Wild is the Hisil/Shadow. The fallen reflection of Pandemonium is the Lower Depths. The fallen reflection of (Supernal) Arcadia is the Arcadia of Changeling/the Hedge obviously.

    The main sticking point is the Aether. I considered the Astral as the Aether's fallen reflection. But if that was the case it seems kinda odd that the path with the easiest access to the Astral (Mastigos) would be different then the path associated with the Aether (Obrimos), and am currently just thinking of the Astral as the "road" (or perhaps...ladder?) to the Supernal (or at least was until the Abyss). That the Lower Depths are often considered to be as separated from the Fallen World as the Fallen World is separated from the Supernal is also a bit of a flaw in the theory, but if I'm ST-ing I can pretty easily wave that bit away.

  • #2
    The Astral goes to Pandemonium as it matches with their themes of goetia and interconnections of existence, and the Supernal World goes to the Aether. Remember that the Supernal World is what goes under the purview of Prime, and is the way in which Mages see the Supernal in the Fallen, rather than the pure Supernal itself. Mages only experience the Supernal during their Awakening, for many of them it's the single most potent magical experience they'll ever have, and it's a fleeting moment at that, just like how Mages can only experience the Supernal World fleetingly in moments of using their Mage Sight.

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    • #3
      Couldn't the Aether's shadow in the Fallen World be wherever the Qashmallim and Pyros come from?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Logothétēs View Post
        Couldn't the Aether's shadow in the Fallen World be wherever the Qashmallim and Pyros come from?

        I always assumed that was the supernal, itself, but unadulterated or filtered.


        Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Logothétēs View Post
          Couldn't the Aether's shadow in the Fallen World be wherever the Qashmallim and Pyros come from?
          It could, but eh, that kind of answer is why Magesplaining is a thing, and the Supernal World is right there.

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          • #6
            I think the material world would be the fallen reflektion of the aether. The material world is governed by physical laws much like the divine machine of the aether.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by thenate View Post


              I always assumed that was the supernal, itself, but unadulterated or filtered.
              I believe its the Empyrean, which may be beyond the Supernal. Maybe I don't know. Kind of the opposite of the Lower Depths.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hangedman1984 View Post
                So I had an idea partially inspired by the Supernal Arcadia/Changeling Arcadia divide. Each of the five known Supernal Realms has a fallen reflection. The fallen reflection of Stygia is the Underworld. The fallen reflection of the Primal Wild is the Hisil/Shadow. The fallen reflection of Pandemonium is the Lower Depths. The fallen reflection of (Supernal) Arcadia is the Arcadia of Changeling/the Hedge obviously.

                The main sticking point is the Aether. I considered the Astral as the Aether's fallen reflection. But if that was the case it seems kinda odd that the path with the easiest access to the Astral (Mastigos) would be different then the path associated with the Aether (Obrimos), and am currently just thinking of the Astral as the "road" (or perhaps...ladder?) to the Supernal (or at least was until the Abyss). That the Lower Depths are often considered to be as separated from the Fallen World as the Fallen World is separated from the Supernal is also a bit of a flaw in the theory, but if I'm ST-ing I can pretty easily wave that bit away.
                Hangman you are in a new profile?!

                But I think Pandemonium has another reflection maybe, because as mentioned Lower Depths is outside the Fallen World. They probably belong more with the Mythological Hells. I mean do the Demons of the Lucifuge variety come from the Lower Depths or is their a more classical Hell?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  Hangman you are in a new profile?!
                  Not...really??

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hangedman1984 View Post
                    Not...really??
                    Oh are you a different Hanged man then?

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                    • #11
                      hangedman1984 I like your theory. What about this?

                      Arcadia Arcadia (domain of the Huntsmen)
                      Pandemonium Inferno (prison of the fallen angels)
                      (I think Inferno is one of the Lower Depths.)
                      Stygia The Underworld
                      The Aether The realm of the Divine Principle
                      (The Divine Principle is from Promethean.)
                      The Primal Wild The Shadow

                      The Empyrean is actually on the other side of the Supernal Realms.

                      I love the Tarot card, btw. Mine is the High Priestess (when I’m single) or the Lovers (when I’m in a relationship). Or the Moon (“Swear not by the Moon/ the inconstant Moon...”).


                      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                        Oh are you a different Hanged man then?
                        I'm guessing so

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                        • #13
                          While I toyed with this notion a long time ago, I've largely abandoned it. That said, how about this:

                          Arcadia: Arcadia (Changeling)
                          Stygia: the Underworld (Geist)
                          Primal Wild: the Shadow (Werewolf)
                          Pandemonium: the Primordial Dream (Beast)
                          Aether: Heaven (Demon)


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                          • #14
                            The Aether's reflection is the interstitial spaces wherein dwell the God-Machine's deepest workings. A vast living machine whose language is magic, tended by angels, and warping reality to make its minions fit seamlessly into reality...


                            LFP: Foreign Bodies (Deviant: the Renegades)

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                            • #15
                              Like I said, Heaven. If Hell is isolation from the God-Machine's influence, then Heaven would be the opposite, the heart and soul of the God-Machine.

                              All that said: my current view is that none of the major Realms that we've been introduced to are Fallen reflections of the Supernal Realms. You have Realms that resonate on the whole with one symbol-set more than another (finding places in the Underworld where the Stygian symbols are especially prevalent is really easy); but they aren't in and of themselves reflections of the Supernal World.

                              Which is not to say that Fallen Reflections of the Supernal World don't exist; they absolutely do. Only, they're not called Reflections; they're called Emanations. And they're detailed in Signs of Sorcery.


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