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What is the difference in behavior between Spirits and Goetia?

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  • What is the difference in behavior between Spirits and Goetia?

    Since they can have overlapping influences like fear or hope, and thanks to the deepest parts of the Astral maybe even Goetia of the concept hunt, prey and maybe even animals. How would spirits and goetia of the same influence act different?
    If i have mages with Spirit and Mind why would they choose the help of one or another of these types of beings?

  • #2
    All spirits will in some way act like spirits; i.e. predatory and always hungry for more Essence. Their Influences flavour this basic behaviour, mostly through which tactics they use to gain Essence.
    Goetia will instead actually act according to the concepts they represents.
    A spirit and a goetia of fear will act superficially similarly, but with different motivations which will cause divergences in their behaviours in different situations. The spirit wants Essence and causing fear is often the best way get it, but whenever it can get Essence through easier/more cost effective means it's likely to persue that instead. The goetia wants to spread fear for the sake of spreading fear. It won't be distracted by lesser fear goetia and consume them just because they're a more convenient source of Essence. Other types of spirits and goetia can behave even more different depending on their concepts.

    Mages can do things for any number of reasons. To persue a Mystery, to fulfil a political or even material goal, to do what they think is ethical, etc.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tessie View Post
      A spirit and a goetia of fear will act superficially similarly, but with different motivations which will cause divergences in their behaviours in different situations. The spirit wants Essence and causing fear is often the best way get it, but whenever it can get Essence through easier/more cost effective means it's likely to persue that instead.
      Put another way:

      Spirits change, by virtue of being the sum of their parts. Goetia are supplanted, by virtue of being pure expressions of their concepts that struggle among themselves for primacy.

      A fear-spirit that's relocated from the suburbs to the countryside may be wrongfooted for a bit, but the basic thing that it is is capable of adapting to better fit into a new ecosystem; it might make a bad call and hybridize itself out of the natural order, but the point is that it exists as a self-contained piece of the world that aggregates pieces of its surroundings over time regardless of its location.

      A fear-goetia in a strange part of the Astral makes a play for supremacy that either works or doesn't, and then it either rules the roost for a time (and maybe tries to expand its little-i influence), gets brought to heel by something else that makes use of it, or gets its spot blown up and regenerates back in the place where it's supposed to be (if the conditions are still right for it to be in that part of the Astral).

      Goetia are ideas — sometimes very complex ones, but they can't not be the things that they are. Spirits are organisms — sometimes very simple ones, but they do grow and adapt.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        A spirit has a spontaneous nature arising from the world, colored by feelings and relations. A goetic has a received nature arising from beliefs and ideas.

        A spirit of fear is the sum of all the resonance it has eaten. It is likely many fears, or at least several related fears expressed in similar ways. Fear is its element and its food. It revels in its element. Beyond that, most spirits are primeval in inclination: they show dominance, seek security, bond with like kinds, form simple societies. If it has the power, it will rule the local spirit court as first and foremost influence, like the leader of a tribe or a gang. If it doesn't, it will find a safe role for itself, maybe in middle management, maybe with outcast friends.

        A goetic of fear is somebody's ideas about fear, whether one person's, a crowd's, or that of a gestalt experience of the world. Somebody in the world thinks the agents of fear think or behave a certain way, and the goetic internalizes and manifests those assumptions. Deep goetia of the Anima Mundi may approach the primeval nature of spirits in their behavior, though they may be more far-reaching and less immediate in their concerns: a prey animal does not think of its predator as simply something looking for its daily meal and security, but a monster whose rule in the prey's life is to rove as a devourer with mysterious designs, never glimpsed long enough to personify as vulnerable. A goetic of an individual person's fear is likely much more anthropomorphic: a being that knows specific memories and detailed scenarios that have evoked that fear, and exists to control and embody them. A spirit of fear is not personal; it does not care whose fear it eats so long as the resonance goes down. A goetic fear is personal, because it arises from beliefs received by some other. It exists in relation to some other's experience of the world: the difference between "I am Fear" and "I am Eric's Fear" or "I am England's Fear."

        A mage with both Spirit and Mind is likely to use whatever is contextually appropriate for their situation. In situations dealing primarily with the material realm, this will probably be spirits, simply because manifestation comes more naturally to them, and a suitable spirit can likely be found who does not need to be gifted the ability to Materialize with spellcraft. Obviously, in situations dealing with their respective otherworlds, the Shadow or the Astral Realms, the mage will favor Spirit or Mind respectively. Mind may win out if the mage is trying to get clever about spreading or altering beliefs of large crowds by working through the Temenos. But for general ephemeral interference with the world, Spirit will win out; Mind is usually more practically applied directly to intelligences, not to involve ephemeral thoughtforms.

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        • #5
          uh, i was on the idea that because Goetia dont live in a world ruled by a cycle of predation they would have a very different approach to things and world view than spirits.

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          • #6
            Less predation and more dominance.

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