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  • Dataweaver
    started a topic The Other Five Paths

    The Other Five Paths

    This topic is intended to provide the current form of my “Ten Watchtowers” concept. Each of the next five posts will be dedicated to one of the new Paths, with the eventual goal of fleshing out all five of them to the same extent as the official five Watchtowers.

    The Existing Legacies are there if you want to co-opt any of the existing Legacies for use with the new Paths instead of the existing ones. They’re a work in progress. I intend to split this list into two parts: those existing Legacies that are conceptually a better fit for the new Path than for the original Path, and those existing Legacies that should only be assigned to the new Path if the original Path gets dropped from the game. For the Elemental Masteries, I attempted to assign one to each Path, avoiding the five already expicitly associated with the traditional five Paths. I'm missing only an elemental association for the Hieraoidos.

    The New Legacies are ideas for Legacies that build on aspects of the Path’s imagery and do not already exist. I’d like at least two per Path, not counting Elemental Tamers or Summoners-style Legacies.

    To-do list:
    • Add a proper Description to each Path.
    • Path Tools.
    • New Legacies writeups.
    • the Path's Abyssal reflection.
    • one Astral Citadel and two Aeons for each Path.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 05-21-2014, 09:28 AM.

  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I'd like to see what you come up with; but I'd rather see it as its own topic. It'll be better for both of us: this topic can maintain its focus, and your Path can get the attention it deserves without being in the shadow of my Paths.

    Leave a comment:


  • GibberingEloquence
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I'm thinking of renaming the Paths. My thought is to take the “Path of ___” terms, run them through an English-to-Greek translator, and then mangle the resulting word to resemble the existing five Path names. So:

    • the Path of Discovery: Discovery becomes “anakalypsi”; so Anakalos
    • the Path of Excellence: Excellence becomes “arete”; so Aretos
    • the Path of Enlightenment: Enlightenment becomes “diafotisi”; so Diafos
    • the Path of Mastery: Mastery becomes “mæstria”; so Mæstros
    • the Path of Balance: Balance becomes “sophrosyne”; so Sophros

    The Anakalos would be the explorers (Space and Fate); the Aretos would be the craftsmen (Matter and Prime); the Diafos would be the sages (Time and Mind); the Mæstros would be the sorcerors (Forces and Spirit); and the Sophros would be the druids (Life and Death).

    Thoughts?

    (for comparison: Moros came from “moira”, greek for Doom; Mastigos came from “Mastigoma”, greek for Scourging.)
    I like it a whole lot. I've been toying with the idea of making a tongue-in-cheek Path based on Genius: The Transgression, and you've given quite a few notes to compare against mine. I might post the results here soon, if that's ok with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grytorm
    replied
    I really like the new names for the paths. They seem a bit easier to remember and they fit the other names better. Also I found a name that could work instead of Daifos for the Sages/Bards. Kleos which comes from the Greek word meaning to hear. But apparently in Greece it meant glory and the stories of heroes. Suggesting what people hear about you. And it even ends with an -os!

    Also on another thread you had on this you came up with the two types of Supernal beings for the Diafos. Zeitgeists for Time and... Egregores for Mind. Maybe you could make the overarching type be Eidolons which kind of means Ghost but sounds fancier and fits the idea of being an image.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I'm thinking of renaming the Paths. My thought is to take the “Path of ___” terms, run them through an English-to-Greek translator, and then mangle the resulting word to resemble the existing five Path names. So:

    • the Path of Discovery: Discovery becomes “anakalypsi”; so Anakalos
    • the Path of Excellence: Excellence becomes “arete”; so Aretos
    • the Path of Enlightenment: Enlightenment becomes “diafotisi”; so Diafos
    • the Path of Mastery: Mastery becomes “mæstria”; so Mæstros
    • the Path of Balance: Balance becomes “sophrosyne”; so Sophros

    The Anakalos would be the explorers (Space and Fate); the Aretos would be the craftsmen (Matter and Prime); the Diafos would be the sages (Time and Mind); the Mæstros would be the sorcerors (Forces and Spirit); and the Sophros would be the druids (Life and Death).

    Thoughts?

    (for comparison: Moros came from “moira”, greek for Doom; Mastigos came from “Mastigoma”, greek for Scourging.)
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 02-17-2016, 12:11 AM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    For the record, I'm waiting for 2e to come out before revisiting this further. But I do intend to revisit it (probably by starting a new thread specifically for the 2e versions). There will be changes from what I presented in my first post here; but unless I have some radical breakthrough somewhere, I'll stick to the same overall structure:

    • a Matter/Prime Path of craftsmen
    • a Life/Death Path of druids
    • a Space/Fate Path of explorers
    • a Forces/Spirit Path of sorcerers
    • a Time/Mind Path of sages

    Leave a comment:


  • Grytorm
    replied
    Actually thinking about it more making the two figures Mother Maize (Mother Corn outside of the Americas and in older sources) and John Barley seems to make more sense. With John Barley being death and cutting the Corn from Barleycorn so it doesn't sound repetitive. Santa Muerte does sound cool but the Mother Maize figure is also really evocative and fits better with John Barley.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anivair
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Great stuff! If I ever wanted to add new Paths to game ( or maybe use interesting pre-Watchtower Archmaster ) I will go for this ones. Really great job with them.

    In fact, almost anytime I throw out an atlantean ruin in a game, this is how I do it: I pair two arcana that are not traditionally paired to stymie players a bit. Life and death is a great combo. Not long ago I used a curse that called back your ancestors from the underworld and created pockets of flesh for them to inhabit inside your body. nasty stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grytorm
    replied
    Personally I like the Paths as you originally had them in the First Post. The Forces/Spirit group are extremely evocative to me along witht he Caelum and the Life Death Druids. I think the only real reason why the Alchemists would overlap with the Moros Alchemists is because I'm not certain if the rules did enough to connect the Death Matter relationship.

    On the matter of Aeons the Falak/Bahumat pair for the Epikraitas seems pretty good. Or maybe make it Tiamat over Bahumat.
    And for the Palinaros maybe John Barleycorn for life. So the pair would be John Barleycorn/Santa Muerte. A bit far apart culturally but both playing into the folk beliefs idea and the interplay of Life and Death.

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  • PenDragon
    replied
    Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
    I would argue for keeping theurge with Obrimos as it evokes the idea of a religiously affiliated Mage, which is what the Obrimos are with their summoning of Angels. The wielding of magic is forbidden in the Torah, the wielding of Miracles is not.
    I actually selected Hierophant for these very reasons, because it is more religious than theurge. Indeed in some Tarot decks The Hierophant is replaced by The Pope. From Merriam Websters online:
    His (the Hierophant's) main task was to display the sacred objects during the celebration of the mysteries and explain their secret meaning to initiates.
    As for giving Theurge to the Epikrateia, I'm not strongly opinionated there. I played around with other terms (Diabolist and Conjurer being the two runners up) and selected Theurge mostly to keep the term around. Thinking about it now I might shift Obrymos to Hierophant and Theurge, Epikrateia to Conjurer and Evoker, and leave the term Thaumaturgy specifically for unawakened sorcerers.

    Originally posted by Dataweaver
    I like your take on the Cælum. In essence, they’re taking the old Acanthus stereotype of reliance on luck and presenting it with a more proactive attitude: the Cælum don’t wait for things to happen; they go out looking for things and trust in their fortune to carry them through (though it definitely helps that they can use Fate to tilt the scales). Mind you, the astrology symbolism needs to be downplayed; they’re not fortunetellers.
    Glad you like it. Truth be told I've been juggling between your 10 Watch Tower structure and the Warlocks of Arcadia variant from the Chroniclers Guide. Either way I want characters like this (Thrill seeking Adventurers, Mad Scientists, Bloodstained Witch Doctors, etc.) to be accessible Archetypes right out the gate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Both “theurgy” and “thaumaturgy”, when you look at their definitions, reference invoking the divine powers. I’m inclined to keep theurgy with the Obrimos for the simple reason that they had it first, and there’s no compelling reason why it’s more suitable elsewhere.

    PenDragon: I like your take on the Cælum. In essence, they’re taking the old Acanthus stereotype of reliance on luck and presenting it with a more proactive attitude: the Cælum don’t wait for things to happen; they go out looking for things and trust in their fortune to carry them through (though it definitely helps that they can use Fate to tilt the scales). Mind you, the astrology symbolism needs to be downplayed; they’re not fortunetellers.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 08-15-2014, 12:25 AM.

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  • proindrakenzol
    replied
    I would argue for keeping theurge with Obrimos as it evokes the idea of a religiously affiliated Mage, which is what the Obrimos are with their summoning of Angels. The wielding of magic is forbidden in the Torah, the wielding of Miracles is not.

    Leave a comment:


  • PenDragon
    replied
    Some explanation of my choices.
    • I moved Theurge away from Obrimos because of this Definition: The art or technique of compelling or persuading a god or beneficent or supernatural power to do or refrain from doing something.Which felt right up the alley for a Path with the Spirit Arcana. Meanwhile Heirophant bears the same religious connotations, but refers more to being a Miracle worker than one who communes with higher powers.
    • The choice of Mad Scientist was partially inspired by my desire to get a more Genius/Scions of Ether into the line, and saw it as the more appropriate Path through which to import them. The other name that came to mind was Philosopher (in the Renaissance scientist/artist sense), but felt that it didn't really evoke the craftsman image as clearly.
    • I used Sorcerer briefly for the Epikrateia, but ended up feeling it wasn't evocative enough of any particular feel. Evoker on the other hand covers both the D&D blast-with-fire archetype and the more accurate definition, "Spirit Summoning"
    • Sage came to me literally as I was posting that list, I'd been struggling to find a term that evoked the idea of wisdom through both the Mind and Time Arcana, Sage covered both neatly.
    • I was reticent to use Witch Doctor, due to it having the word Witch, but after some thought I concluded the sort of "Witch" the two words evoke are very different.
    As for Cælum I think you could draw from the gentleman explorer, daredevil, trailblazer archetype. Discovering new horizons, armed only with wit and fortune. The Odyssey, Gulliver's Travels, pulp adventure fiction, a view of Fate that puts the Mage in the foreground instead of behind the scenes.

    Given that view of Cælum I'd probably give them the Nicknames Enchanter and move Soothsayer to Acanthus.

    Edit: The more I think about Cælum vs Acanthus the more I'm liking the Adventurer angle. It plays to a very different aspect of Fate than the Path of Thorns. Acanthus look forward with Time and see what will happen, they have certainty, and use Fate to change those 'predetermined' outcomes. Cælum have Space and use it to look to far off into space, to trace mysteries that interest them and follow those leads. They trust Fate to make everything turn out alright. It's a very reactive outlook that, which certainly possible for an Acanthus, doesn't entirely fit within their stereotype.
    Last edited by PenDragon; 08-14-2014, 08:42 PM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Those are some interesting choices. My immediate thoughts:

    • I’m trying to keep the impact on the existing Paths to a minimum, which is why the furthest I’m willing to go is to change which one is emphasized — and then only in the case of the Moros, for the reasons I just stated.
    • With that said, why did you take “theurge” away from the Obrimos, rather than “thaumaturge”?
    • The other reason why I’m disinclined to keep the Cælum is that their unique niché as originally conceived (seeing the future and planning for it) has been incorporated into the Acanthus lock, stock, and barrel. If they are to survive as a separate Path, their differences from the Acanthus need to be emphasized. And their biggest difference relates to their other Ruling Arcanum, Space: they’re trailblazers and navigators. Sadly, I can’t think of any mystical archetypes that reflect this idea…
    • Chrysopos: “mad scientists” is a fascinating choice. On the one hand, it’s a really new idea: I suspect that the first Mad Scientist ever was Victor Frankenstein, from the (early?) 1900s. On the other hand, it does fit the Chrysopos rather well, once you get past the “mad” part — and a Mad Chrysopos who practices Ars Nova could fit the “mad scientist” stereotype quite well.
    • Epikrateia: “evokers” could work. I was using “sorcerers” with Solomon the Wise in mind: I may be wrong, but my understanding is that he was called a sorcerer for his binding of the djinn.
    • Heiraoidos: I like “sages” quite a bit. Note also that I was deliberately trying to reuse half of the names used by the original Paths, to enable the option of “one Path for each of the ten archetypes”; I was especially fond of associating “enchanters” with this Path, using it in the sense of “did you see her performance? She was so enchanting…”
    • Palinoros: “Witch Doctor” is another intriguing choice. It’s definitely in the “derogatory” category, though.

    You also have some interesting alternate names for the existing Paths. If it had been possible, I might have preferred “soothsayer” as an alternative for the Acanthus, “psychic” as an alternative to the Mastigos, “medium” as an alternative for the Moros, and “Heirophant” as an alternative for the Obrimos.

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  • PenDragon
    replied
    What timing I was just poking at this myself, attempting to find unique names for other Paths. Here's what I'd come up with, attempting to follow the model of one potentially derogatory name and one neutral one.

    Acanthus: Witches & Enchanters
    Cælum: Soothsayers & Astrologers
    Chrysopos: Mad Scientists & Alchemists
    Epikrateia: Theurges & Evokers
    Hieraoidos: Bards & Sages
    Masigos: Warlocks & Psychonauts
    Moros: Mediums & Necromancers
    Obrimos: Heirophants & Thaumaturges
    Palinoros: Witch Doctors & Druids
    Thyrsus: Shamans & Ecstatics

    Leave a comment:

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