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  • How to: Spider Climb

    The spider climb spell in D&D does just what it sounds like: for the duration of the spell, the caster can walk on walls, ceilings, etc. in much the same way as Spider-Man. So which of the Arcana and at what level would allow that feat?

  • #2
    Transform Life (Life •••)

    You can also mimic the effects with Gravitic Supremacy (Forces •••) or Alter Direction (Space ••••).


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      There are many ways to do it:

      Forces 2: Redirect gravity to the direction your feet point towards

      Life 3: Transform life to gain the literal spider climb

      Space 4: Alter the direction of down to be wherever your feet point towards

      Spirit 4: Find a spider or similar climbing spirit and bind it to a fetish. Alternatively, find a mountain climber's ghost or a goetia and create a similar fetish with Death or Mind.

      Matter 3: Use a mixture of altering the state of the matter around you and Ruling it to move, that way you can literally swim through walls and partially emerge from them.

      Hope that helps


      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
      The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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      • #4
        The core rulebook provides a direct answer to this question: Life 3. Search for the text Wall-Crawling.

        There are other ways to do it as well, like using Matter 2 to shape hand- and foot-holds into whatever surface as you go, but Life 3 is the most direct translation. And if the it's just a matter of solving "I need to get up there" without particularly caring how it's managed, any Arcanum can solve that problem somehow.

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        • #5
          Forces 2 could also work, a Shielding spell against electron repulsion, allowing van der Waals forces to supersede that.

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          • #6
            I'm sure that anyone with a strong enough physics background to dream up applications of manipulating the strong and weak nuclear forces can do some game-breaking stuff. If Forces covers electromagnetism, gravity, and radiation then I suppose it covers those too, and they're just too esoteric to mention in the game rules. I know that I for one don't care to read a spell that's manipulating Z bosons or whatever.

            At a certain point the science is just as mysterious as any magic and the spells turn out as technobabble that can justify anything. As a layman ST my bullshit detector can't penetrate something that requires a PhD in physics to understand.

            Those episodes of Star Trek where the writers build up a big dramatic situation and then resolve it by having the characters spout a bunch of bullshit about tachyons always felt pretty unsatisfying. Deus ex machina by way of impenetrable technobabble. It's just bad storytelling.
            Last edited by galivet; 12-17-2020, 01:39 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by LadyLens View Post
              Forces 2 could also work, a Shielding spell against electron repulsion, allowing van der Waals forces to supersede that.
              That would not be Shielding because Shielding is about protection from harmful sources and deleterious effects.
              Regardless, without the ability to selectively cancel the effects of the spell you'd risk geting immediately stuck the moment you touch the surface since you don't have specialised dermis that regulates the van der Waals force between you and the surface you wish to stick to (or at the very least have the sensation of ripping off a band aid from your fingertips and toes each time you're taking another step), and would still have to contend with gravity, which might actually just rip your epidermis right off considering the extremely low effective surface area compared to your body mass.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Those are valid potential problems, yes.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                  That would not be Shielding because Shielding is about protection from harmful sources and deleterious effects.
                  Shielding is about preventing something under the purview of the arcanum affecting the subject of the shielding spell; the thing shielded from needs not be harmful or deleterious.


                  Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                  • #10
                    Shielding wards and protects against the following: Supernatural powers of a certain type, supernatural powers that would interfere with a certain aspect, damage from sources of harm other than attacks, and Tilts & Conditions.
                    Any prevention that happens, happens because prevention is how the spell protects. Other than providing CoWs against supernatural powers from a certain type of source (which is not specified more deeply because of how subjective and wordcount-eating it would otherwise become) not a single Shielding spell extends beyond preventing interactions that would definitely be harmful to the subject. Shielding does not prevent stuff like people noticing the subject (Mind Veiling) or gravity from affecting the subject (Forces Fraying), but it could protect against dangerous kinetic forces arising from the effects of gravity.
                    Edit: While "protection" from non-dangerous stuff could work in other settings, Mage magic runs on symbolism. If it's not actual protection, it would be a different Practice. Similarly, Veiling spells can work very differently depending on the partiticulars, but it needs to symbolically hide the subject or cause the subject to not find something for it to be a Veiling spell no matter how it works. If it doesn't, it wouldn't be a Veiling spell even if it works similarly to a Veiling spell of a different Arcanum.
                    Last edited by Tessie; 12-19-2020, 10:41 AM.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You don't really have to get into the exact detailed justification for why a spell works.
                      1. I want to climb this wall using Forces.
                      2. I can push on the wall. That's an application of Force.
                      3. Magic: When I push on the wall, the force shall carry me along its surface instead of pushing me away from it. I have the strength to push my own weight (a.k.a do a pushup) so I can push on the wall hard enough to lift my weight vertically. I just have to modify the direction in which that force is applied.
                      4. Modifying something without fundamentally changing it? That's Weaving.
                      5. So it's a Force 3 spell: Change "equal and opposite reaction" to "equal and thisaway reaction".
                      It's magic; you don't need to explain exactly what obscure (to laypersons) electromagnetic interaction or whatever you're jangling with to get the job done. If it helps you get into character then that's great, but it's certainly not necessary. I think a lot of times it's a trap.

                      You fit a spell into a Practice after you decide what it does, and the Practice it fits in tells you the Arcanum dots you need. Deciding on a Practice and then working out how to leverage it to accomplish an effect is backwards.
                      Last edited by galivet; 12-19-2020, 02:33 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                        Shielding wards and protects against the following: Supernatural powers of a certain type, supernatural powers that would interfere with a certain aspect, damage from sources of harm other than attacks, and Tilts & Conditions.
                        That's a very authoritative statement that directly contradicts at least one common use meaning of the word "Shield" which is "prevent interference." Do you have an actual page number for this proclamation?

                        Any prevention that happens, happens because prevention is how the spell protects. Other than providing CoWs against supernatural powers from a certain type of source (which is not specified more deeply because of how subjective and wordcount-eating it would otherwise become) not a single Shielding spell extends beyond preventing interactions that would definitely be harmful to the subject.
                        That is not evidence of anything except the writers either not having the space or not thinking about including the spell; there is a lot of uncovered ground in published spells, and they are explicitly not exhaustive.

                        Shielding does not prevent stuff like people noticing the subject (Mind Veiling)
                        Apples are not orangutans. <--- This is equally as relevant a statement.

                        or gravity from affecting the subject (Forces Fraying), but it could protect against dangerous kinetic forces arising from the effects of gravity.
                        The Forces Fraying spell dealing with gravity (Gravitic Supremacy) specifically weakens (frays) Gravity itself, it does not act on a person or object, so is, once again, irrelevant.


                        Edit: While "protection" from non-dangerous stuff could work in other settings, Mage magic runs on symbolism. If it's not actual protection, it would be a different Practice. Similarly, Veiling spells can work very differently depending on the partiticulars, but it needs to symbolically hide the subject or cause the subject to not find something for it to be a Veiling spell no matter how it works. If it doesn't, it wouldn't be a Veiling spell even if it works similarly to a Veiling spell of a different Arcanum.

                        Both the word "shielding" and "protection" are commonly applied to preventing interference or interaction, even in cases that are non-destructive.


                        Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                        • #13

                          This is the shielding oxygen from a person and making them suffocate argument all over again. Just remember that physics is part of the lie, What you think might happen when you "shield stuff vs strong or weak nuclear forces" probably isn't what you are going to get when magic is involved and it wont be a huge explosion or whatever...

                          Also remember, shielding from gravity wont allow the subject to fly off into space either....
                          Last edited by totalgit; 12-25-2020, 01:43 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by totalgit View Post
                            This is the shielding oxygen from a person and making them suffocate argument all over again. Just remember that physics is part of the lie, What you think might happen when you "shield stuff vs strong or weak nuclear forces" probably isn't what you are going to get when magic is involved and it wont be a huge explosion or whatever...

                            Also remember, shielding from gravity wont allow the subject to fly off into space either....
                            Funny how in every example the game gives physics ensues normally outside the strict confines of the spell, but once you start messing with things the average forum goer thinks is "overpowered" suddenly it's all "this is magic things aren't going to happen the way you think!"

                            It is magic, magic can, and does, defy the laws of physics. But the laws of physics still exist, and will continue along accordingly except where stopped or changed by magic.


                            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                              Funny how in every example the game gives physics ensues normally outside the strict confines of the spell, but once you start messing with things the average forum goer thinks is "overpowered" suddenly it's all "this is magic things aren't going to happen the way you think!"

                              It is magic, magic can, and does, defy the laws of physics. But the laws of physics still exist, and will continue along accordingly except where stopped or changed by magic.

                              Using the practice of shielding to blow up the world or let people fly off into space is stupid though. Because that's not what the practice of shielding does. Science might tell you something not interacting with gravity can now fly off into space but its a lie and what you end up with is not what science tells you should happen. Since normal gravity usually has no harmful effects shielding yourself from gravity wont seem like its done anything, when gravity increases to a point it might harm you then shielding will help.

                              Yes magic ignores the laws of physics, so it can ignore the idea that "shielding vs X causes Y cos science says it should."
                              Last edited by totalgit; 12-25-2020, 05:34 AM.

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