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1e supplemental books in 2e

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  • 1e supplemental books in 2e

    Since there'll be quite some time before 2e gets as many books as 1e what are the books that still work and which ones don't?

  • #2
    What brought this on was looking at 1e astral realms and comparing them to 2e. In 1e, mana is almost impossible to find. However, in 2e there are places that connect to Atlantean temples. It seems like despite having the same path from onerios to sidereal wastes, the internals are different.

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    • #3
      The order books to some degree still work. There are definitely differences between the editions, but they still work inspiration.
      Astral Realms, obviously. That one more than any other still works well.
      Sanctum and Sigil has some decent parts to it, though some of it doesn't work with 2e.
      If you've already played a lot, and I mean A Lot, of Mage then Chronicler's Guide will give you some alternative setting ideas. Otherwise recommend returning to the basics (because Mage is a really good game without "modding" it).

      Definitely recommend getting 2e's Signs of Sorcery first, though. It's got a lot of really relevant material, and it's one of the better supplemental books anyways.

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      • #4
        The difficulty is that there are a decent number of changes to 2e that haven't really been fully elaborated yet. Like, the consilium structure is different but we haven't gotten anything nearing the detail of Sanctum & Sigil on how new consilia actually function. The same goes for caucuses.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
          Definitely recommend getting 2e's Signs of Sorcery first, though. It's got a lot of really relevant material, and it's one of the better supplemental books anyways.
          I've read it but this is specifically 1e books and how they translate well.

          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          The difficulty is that there are a decent number of changes to 2e that haven't really been fully elaborated yet. Like, the consilium structure is different but we haven't gotten anything nearing the detail of Sanctum & Sigil on how new consilia actually function. The same goes for caucuses.
          Astral realms has the same problem. There's a lot of it which has been overwritten by just a few words.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
            I've read it but this is specifically 1e books and how they translate well.


            Astral realms has the same problem. There's a lot of it which has been overwritten by just a few words.
            True, 2e has a different focus. In 1e you'll find a lot of focus on the politics of mages and their consiliums. Second edition gives mages a better driving force with obsessions and Mysteries that can be understood via Mage sight.

            So, yeah, you'll find that a large amount of the 1e books don't have much use anymore. It may not be what you wanted to hear, but it is what it is.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
              Astral realms has the same problem. There's a lot of it which has been overwritten by just a few words.
              Really? I thought Astral Realms still was one of the most relevant 1e books.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                Really? I thought Astral Realms still was one of the most relevant 1e books.
                The realms still work the same, but in 1e it explicitly says that there's nothing supernal in the astral realm. More over, that atlantean relics or temples aren't found there. Which does change things.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                  The realms still work the same, but in 1e it explicitly says that there's nothing supernal in the astral realm. More over, that atlantean relics or temples aren't found there. Which does change things.

                  Where is that? How does specifically declaring Atlantean ruins obviate anything in the book? I'm pretty confident that the only reason that wasn't in Astral Realms is that Secrets of the Ruined Temple a separate book, personally. (That's not mere rhetoric. I'm curious if I missed something.)

                  Omphalos and The Tower Perilous are major examples of Atlantean works (at least arguably) and other signs of Atlantean runes and such are mentioned in various places. (such as the discussion of Sidereal Wastes "Some of these ruins bear Atlantean script; others are unrecognizable." and "Mars is notorious for its stray goetic demons and sentient Atlantean constructs.")


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thenate View Post


                    Where is that? How does specifically declaring Atlantean ruins obviate anything in the book? I'm pretty confident that the only reason that wasn't in Astral Realms is that Secrets of the Ruined Temple a separate book, personally. (That's not mere rhetoric. I'm curious if I missed something.)

                    Omphalos and The Tower Perilous are major examples of Atlantean works (at least arguably) and other signs of Atlantean runes and such are mentioned in various places. (such as the discussion of Sidereal Wastes "Some of these ruins bear Atlantean script; others are unrecognizable." and "Mars is notorious for its stray goetic demons and sentient Atlantean constructs.")
                    It's in both the artifacts section and the how prime works. It's weirdly contradictory.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                      It's in both the artifacts section and the how prime works. It's weirdly contradictory.
                      The text about Prime in the Astral only says that imbued items and artefacts are rare. It says nothing about Atlantean ruins or anything else connected to the Supernal. The items part of the book lists several Artefacts. You might've misread the "Astral Artifacts" sidebar which says (in an obnoxiously roundabout way) that Chimerical Items and Artefacts are different things.

                      Regardless, if Astral Realms does say somewhere that nothing Supernal exists in the Astral, then that is a very easily ignored (and, as you point out, already contradicted) point that doesn't invalidate the rest of the book.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                        The text about Prime in the Astral only says that imbued items and artefacts are rare. It says nothing about Atlantean ruins or anything else connected to the Supernal. The items part of the book lists several Artefacts. You might've misread the "Astral Artifacts" sidebar which says (in an obnoxiously roundabout way) that Chimerical Items and Artefacts are different things.

                        Regardless, if Astral Realms does say somewhere that nothing Supernal exists in the Astral, then that is a very easily ignored (and, as you point out, already contradicted) point that doesn't invalidate the rest of the book.
                        It's not about invalidating the book so much as invalidating parts of the book.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                          It's not about invalidating the book so much as invalidating parts of the book.
                          You're not going to get ANY 1e book that doesn't have some part invalidated. That's part of the point of making a second edition.

                          That being said, Astral Realms is going to have some of the least amount of changes when it comes descriptions (aka fluff). Even much of the mechanics will stay the same.
                          Last edited by Falcon777; 01-26-2021, 12:03 PM.

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                          • #14
                            To my understanding Left-Handed Path works alright but is probably overridden by the new Night Horrors stuff. And I think Mage: Noir is just generaly kind fo cool.


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