Nimbus focal points

[TempleBuilder]

It occurred to me a few days ago that the immediate nimbus when activated from spending mana resembles a pulse of light from a emitter. One mana equals one pulse of personal resonance. This led me to wonder what other properties the immediate nimbus shares with light. What interests me most is the idea of focal points, as a well known property of light is to increase in intensity at such a point, inversely proportional to the size of said point. if the nimbus resembles light, then it would seem likely that the strength of the nimbus would increase at that point, proportional to the amount of resonance energy in that point. Even if the nimbus doesn't exhibit such qualities on it's own, a simple weaving spell with forces and prime could bestow such properties could bestow such properties on a mage's nimbus.

The question is what would happen? A focus point size would be determined by a spell or physical lenses. However, as far as I am aware, the game only has rules for the area of effect version. A spell could make practically infinitely small focus point. The resonance energy could be concentrated to such a small point that it has theoretically infinite nimbus strength. How would someone even model that? What would the effects be of the various nimbus enhancing merits?

Anyways this is my first post, ever. If I have messed any of the format up, please let me know. If my post is unclear, please let me know. If this question belongs in another thread, please let me know. I have more questions, somewhat related in concept. Should I make different threads for them, or should I ask them in this thread?

[Neos01]

It s an interesting theory, in fact every supernatural being auras seems to behave like some sort of wave, like when they oppose to different auras.
I m not sure if a nimbus could be focused in something similar to a focal point, but if you assume that both nimbuses and spells are manifestation of supernal symbols, then spells ARE nimbuses focalized on the targets

[TempleBuilder]

It s an interesting theory, in fact every supernatural being auras seems to behave like some sort of wave, like when they oppose to different auras.
I m not sure if a nimbus could be focused in something similar to a focal point, but if you assume that both nimbuses and spells are manifestation of supernal symbols, then spells ARE nimbuses focalized on the targets

Wow, that’s not anything like I was thinking. Which is awesome. With the assumption of spells being in effect being focused nimbuses, the argument could be made that my experiment could result in a new spell. One spawned not directly of the mage, but of the conditions of their nimbus. Which is similar to the description of a Tupla. That has wonderful implications about the nimbus of the rapt. I’m going to have to pull out nameless and accursed to be sure.

I was thinking about the problem from a different angle last night, and I came to the conclusion that a focused nimbus would merely increase the nimbus number that is compared to resolve. That’s kinda boring, so I looked at that weaving spell. That one comes with all sorts of unintended side effects, most of which I find funny. For example, nimbus weaved with light would be subject to redshift and blueshift. If you compare the wavelength to the nimbus tilt, then the tilt changes based off of relative motion. I think a focused light weaved nimbus would increase both the nimbus strength and the intensity of the tilt if focused.

I think the easiest way to model the nimbus is to look at the spell factors chart. What is the longest range the nimbus can go after spending a mana to activate it?... The rules don’t say. For both my sanity and my convenience, I’m assuming that the nimbus can only effect up to the area of a large building. Other people might go in with different assumptions that are equally valid. I would say for each scale factor down, add 1 to nimbus strength (not the tilt). If using the light weaving spell, maybe you could temporarily purchase the nimbus enhancing merits? This could go all the way to scale factor 0 or a size that cannot effect people, creating that horrifically powerful nimbus in a tiny space I hypothesized about. Only way to interact with it would be mage sight. Arguably, one could argue all sorts of strange effects happen at that point. Maybe the creation of a artificial nimbus knot. Maybe that proto Tupla.

[Isator Levi]

Having been recently introduced to the concept of Phenomenology, I feel it's worth suggesting that such a thing informs the nature of many a Supernal phenomenon, and the Nimbus in particular. That even in cases where a Nimbus actually resembles light, that's more like projecting the direct experience of light as it would be had by an observer, without the need for anything as prosaic as a physical phenomenon. But this would also mean that it doesn't really possess things like wave properties and other reactions. It's not that it isn't "real" light, but more that it's light so real that that it doesn't need to come with all the bells and whistles of things like a source and a medium and interactions; these are the necessities of the profound becoming the phenomenal, their pure form splintering off into complexities and intersections. An observer might experience it visually because that's part of how they are defined as experiencing light, but it might be that it's really their soul that is aware of it.

I wouldn't think of spells as being projected through the Nimbus (with a slight caveat) when we have the matter of sensory spells taking place on their targets immediately and without defence. That's something I like about the magic in Awakening; it's not a matter of shaping some form of energy, it's not projected through a medium. Your will forms a set of symbols that encodes an effect, and through the Gnosis that becomes part of the Supernal, and hence reality just... becomes it. Duration isn't even a case of the subject having an elasticity that snaps back into place without the spell to maintain it, it's a function of the attention to detail in your imago. If it lacks the complexity and the Reach to persist, then its natural form is transitory, as much as anything else in the world is.

Under this schema, I would think that Touch range isn't a mode of transmission as much as it being necessary for the imago to contain some form of real time information about the target (even a sympathetic spell requires a representative Yantra), and tactile sensation is the easiest to form in the imago. That's the one place where I'd say the Nimbus has a direct effect; that the energy effect perceived in an Aimed spell constitutes a mage being able to use ambient mana conforming to the shape of a Nimbus as a kind of projection to acquire the sensory information that completes the imago and allows the spell to take place. I'd state it as an unstated minor effect of Gnosis on physical substance, akin to Pattern Scouring.

[TempleBuilder]

Having been recently introduced to the concept of Phenomenology, I feel it's worth suggesting that such a thing informs the nature of many a Supernal phenomenon, and the Nimbus in particular. That even in cases where a Nimbus actually resembles light, that's more like projecting the direct experience of light as it would be had by an observer, without the need for anything as prosaic as a physical phenomenon. But this would also mean that it doesn't really possess things like wave properties and other reactions. It's not that it isn't "real" light, but more that it's light so real that that it doesn't need to come with all the bells and whistles of things like a source and a medium and interactions; these are the necessities of the profound becoming the phenomenal, their pure form splintering off into complexities and intersections. An observer might experience it visually because that's part of how they are defined as experiencing light, but it might be that it's really their soul that is aware of it.

I wouldn't think of spells as being projected through the Nimbus (with a slight caveat) when we have the matter of sensory spells taking place on their targets immediately and without defence. That's something I like about the magic in Awakening; it's not a matter of shaping some form of energy, it's not projected through a medium. Your will forms a set of symbols that encodes an effect, and through the Gnosis that becomes part of the Supernal, and hence reality just... becomes it. Duration isn't even a case of the subject having an elasticity that snaps back into place without the spell to maintain it, it's a function of the attention to detail in your imago. If it lacks the complexity and the Reach to persist, then its natural form is transitory, as much as anything else in the world is.

Under this schema, I would think that Touch range isn't a mode of transmission as much as it being necessary for the imago to contain some form of real time information about the target (even a sympathetic spell requires a representative Yantra), and tactile sensation is the easiest to form in the imago. That's the one place where I'd say the Nimbus has a direct effect; that the energy effect perceived in an Aimed spell constitutes a mage being able to use ambient mana conforming to the shape of a Nimbus as a kind of projection to acquire the sensory information that completes the imago and allows the spell to take place. I'd state it as an unstated minor effect of Gnosis on physical substance, akin to Pattern Scouring.

Thank you for such a detailed reply. There is quite a lot there to unpack, and I will go into detail on bit later, but where can I get a primer on Phenomenology?

[Isator Levi]

Thank you for such a detailed reply. There is quite a lot there to unpack, and I will go into detail on lit later, but where can I get a primer on Phenomenology?

Abigail Thorn (Philosophy Tube) gives a breakdown in her video about Jordan Peterson, and then I read some things on Wikipedia.

[TempleBuilder]

Sorry about the delay, some things and distractions came up. I’m afraid I haven’t watched Abrigail yet, but I have had time to switch metal gears, and process what you have said.

Having been recently introduced to the concept of Phenomenology, I feel it's worth suggesting that such a thing informs the nature of many a Supernal phenomenon, and the Nimbus in particular. That even in cases where a Nimbus actually resembles light, that's more like projecting the direct experience of light as it would be had by an observer, without the need for anything as prosaic as a physical phenomenon. But this would also mean that it doesn't really possess things like wave properties and other reactions. It's not that it isn't "real" light, but more that it's light so real that that it doesn't need to come with all the bells and whistles of things like a source and a medium and interactions; these are the necessities of the profound becoming the phenomenal, their pure form splintering off into complexities and intersections. An observer might experience it visually because that's part of how they are defined as experiencing light, but it might be that it's really their soul that is aware of it.

Alright I THINK I understand what you are saying here. I guess I always understood the fallen world like a program, with the supernal being the source code behind it. The source code contains every possible arrangement of reality, and none of it without the program. That’s why the supernal is sometimes self contradictory, as both humans not being able understand the full complexity of realest reality and the contradictory bits are from different versions of reality. Mages draw on the entirety of the supernal which mostly runs an symbolism and so on. The rules are different, being symbolic and metaphorical but the rules remain. Mages are just programmers inside the program. I guess my difficulty here is understanding the light so real it has no rules or interactions. The realist form of light I can think of are the rules that make light up. I guess the supernal is one step beyond that, then that it’s presence dissolves illusions less potent.

I wouldn't think of spells as being projected through the Nimbus (with a slight caveat) when we have the matter of sensory spells taking place on their targets immediately and without defence. That's something I like about the magic in Awakening; it's not a matter of shaping some form of energy, it's not projected through a medium. Your will forms a set of symbols that encodes an effect, and through the Gnosis that becomes part of the Supernal, and hence reality just... becomes it. Duration isn't even a case of the subject having an elasticity that snaps back into place without the spell to maintain it, it's a function of the attention to detail in your imago. If it lacks the complexity and the Reach to persist, then its natural form is transitory, as much as anything else in the world is.

Under this schema, I would think that Touch range isn't a mode of transmission as much as it being necessary for the imago to contain some form of real time information about the target (even a sympathetic spell requires a representative Yantra), and tactile sensation is the easiest to form in the imago. That's the one place where I'd say the Nimbus has a direct effect; that the energy effect perceived in an Aimed spell constitutes a mage being able to use ambient mana conforming to the shape of a Nimbus as a kind of projection to acquire the sensory information that completes the imago and allows the spell to take place. I'd state it as an unstated minor effect of Gnosis on physical substance, akin to Pattern Scouring.

So this readily explains the signature nimbus, but what about the immediate nimbus? Mana is pure symbolism, and I guess spending that mana filters the symbolism of a mage’s gnosis into the fallen world. From their souls comes symbolism that rushes into others souls. Under this model, concentrated gnosis symbolism really wouldn’t do anything besides limit the area of spread. Even weaved with light the strength of the nimbus might increase, maybe. Good call on aimed spells, I’ve never really gotten why they work other than a conditional, when the spell stops moving add on, that every mage has. Interesting that touch is the easiest sense that can complete the imago. I wonder if smell or hearing or taste would ever be able to complete the imago if a mage was blind and numb?

[Isator Levi]

I guess my difficulty here is understanding the light so real it has no rules or interactions. The realist form of light I can think of are the rules that make light up. I guess the supernal is one step beyond that, then that it’s presence dissolves illusions less potent.

"Real" was perhaps not the best term to use. I just meant to get at the subject as described in Signs of Sorcery, the basic introduction to Platonism that is "the pure form of the triangle is one that cannot exist physically, because physicality imposes even minute imperfections to the mathematical precision".

I definitely think that "illusion" is the wrong term for the everyday reality. Awakening not only tends to frame the Supernal as needing expression as the Phenomenal in order to have true meaning, but implies that mages who go in for the world as illusory being kind of terrible.

So this readily explains the signature nimbus, but what about the immediate nimbus?

Well what I meant there was a way to think of why the Signature can look like impressions made by the touch of the Immediate without that literally being the case. The Immediate Nimbus still seems to be basically a symbolic representation of one's magical identity.

Not total identity, I think; not the qualities of your nature and life unrelated to things like Obsessions and Legacy. A mage's love for their kids isn't necessarily depicted in their Nimbus, although I think the capacity for Long-Term to spread out to them constitutes an expression of how the magical part can try to overwhelm the rest; skimming the surface of how undiluted contact with the Supernal obliterates anything not native or Ascended. I think it would also cover why commitment to the Shadow Name protects the mundane parts of your life from the Nimbus, you create these kind of channels dividing the part of yourself the Nimbus represents so that it only goes where it belongs.

Mana is pure symbolism, and I guess spending that mana filters the symbolism of a mage’s gnosis into the fallen world. From their souls comes symbolism that rushes into others souls. Under this model, concentrated gnosis symbolism really wouldn’t do anything besides limit the area of spread. Even weaved with light the strength of the nimbus might increase, maybe. Good call on aimed spells, I’ve never really gotten why they work other than a conditional, when the spell stops moving add on, that every mage has. Interesting that touch is the easiest sense that can complete the imago.

These later, too tired right now.

I wonder if smell or hearing or taste would ever be able to complete the imago if a mage was blind and numb?

Oh a sighted mage can cast through those senses as it is. And the game has often contained references to mages who have been sightless their whole lives.