Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New to Awakening, Seers of the Throne subgroups

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    In addition to the ones he's stated here, Dave has provided descriptions elsewhere for the other Ministries mentioned in Signs of Sorcery.

    Herodian, a lesser Ministry of the General, is about promoting the pre-emptive violence in response to the fear that somebody is coming to take away what is yours. They cover things like hostility towards immigrants or the idea of the rich preparing to hole up in bunkers against climate change (and in particular, any angry uprisings it might prompt).

    The Nemesis has Orphean, Seers who follow the model of Men in Black, intimidating witnesses of the unusual or supernatural into silence (although like the Psychopomp, the Nemesis has a preference for inhuman servants)*.

    The Father's other Ministry are Dolusian, who are all about things like conspiracy theories, denial of major disasters like climate change and pandemics, and general news media misinformation. While the Unity has Logothetes, the faceless and impenetrable bureaucracy that embroils people in arbitrary procedure and hostile workers.

    And the Eye has Phemian, a Ministry focused on building up transitory celebrity which gets crushed under an excess of public scrutiny and then quickly forgotten.

    * You mentioned Geryon before, but keep in mind that in the modern day setting, that Ministry is extinct. They diminished rapidly after falling from Great status, and what was left of them was wiped out when they incurred the wrath of Angrboda, the game's signature Scelestus, driven to revenge for the murder of his family (and members of a cult he was building trying to more openly espouse Silver Ladder beliefs).
    Wow. Almost every type of social jerkass in modern society is covered by a Ministry or two


    MtAw Homebrew:
    Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
    New 2E Legacies, expanded

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

      Wow. Almost every type of social jerkass in modern society is covered by a Ministry or two

      So, really, the Seers should outnumber the Pentacles five to one.

      Comment


      • #18
        Some of these Ministries are only a couple dozen Seers, though.

        It’s important to realise, while we’re on the breadth of the Sect’s scope, that while they’re the only nWoD faction that’s a truly global organisation, the Seers differ from the Technocracy in one very important way - they exploit, encourage, and reinforce human evil that reinforces the Lie. They don’t *cause* it. Panopticon didn’t cause the surveillance state, they were a collection of Seer prelates of the Eye who saw it forming and thought it was a good idea. There are dozens to hundreds of Ministries that are just one or two Seers with big dreams.


        Dave Brookshaw

        Comment


        • #19
          Which is something I find to help reinforce the sense of them as mages; they aren't the masterminds, they just have deep insight into the workings of the world, and know where to apply pressure and collect outputs.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            ...further divided into Methodologies.
            As mentioned, Methodologies aren't sub-Ministries (as they are for the Technocracy). A Methodology is essentially a way of categorising what an individual Pylon (cabal) does. However, the idea is that the Methodologies have become institutions of their own that work at cross purposes with the ministries. So Seers that might be technically members of different ministries might nevertheless have much more in common because they share the same methodology.

            That said, it's, in my opinion, a little underdeveloped in the book, as there are only three listed. That said I really like the idea.

            What is your favorite Ministry to use? Why?
            I've not really found it all that important. They're a fascinating faction but individually I've found them to be kinda weak antagonists, and it's difficult to get that interesting stuff across to players whose characters are in the Pentacle.


            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Michael View Post

              As mentioned, Methodologies aren't sub-Ministries (as they are for the Technocracy). A Methodology is essentially a way of categorising what an individual Pylon (cabal) does. However, the idea is that the Methodologies have become institutions of their own that work at cross purposes with the ministries. So Seers that might be technically members of different ministries might nevertheless have much more in common because they share the same methodology.

              That said, it's, in my opinion, a little underdeveloped in the book, as there are only three listed. That said I really like the idea.
              I think Seers of the Throne is one of the strongest books in the game, but I've got to admit that Methodologies seem to be a bit of an odd element where what they're described as being seems to differ a bit from what they're presented as being, even though both of those are things that would logically fit with the Seers as a whole.

              Like, the overall description seems to suggest groups with particular agendas that necessarily require an intersection of several Ministries, or maybe a kind of collaborative project. But then you get to them and the examples are more like... particular ways of going about general Seer stuff. The presentation of a Methodology whose deal is that they find mortal mouthpieces for instructions from on high stands out; it makes sense to the definition and as a thing that Seers of any stripe might be interested in, but I find it a lot more low key than how the concept is initially introduced.

              Originally posted by Michael
              it's difficult to get that interesting stuff across to players whose characters are in the Pentacle.
              I think it can depend on what the focus of the game is. The distinctions of Ministry modes and motives might be more apparent in a game where the player cabal is more dedicated to involvement in operations conducted by their caucus(es) in specific opposition to the Seers. The kind of thing where gathering and analysing intelligence on what they're up to, and planning and executing moves to undermine them is a regular occurrence. Possibly also a game where players might have a point of contact with somebody actually in the Iron Pyramid; not exactly friendly, but warily cordial, and where that character might convey details of the internal workings of the tetrarchy in a way that players can respond to them (not necessarily with direct conflict, but affecting how they go about things).


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

              Comment


              • #22
                Methodologies are what you (and your office) do on a day to day basis. They aren't organised, that would be like unionising under big corporate. Technically they could but the tetrarchs would never stand for that. These are the functions of the Seers in that pylon. Here is their internal responsibilities. You have your three main groupings; the Secretary/Armoury group (Condecoi), the Research group (Skopoi) and the Incentive Actors (Oikoumene).

                Ministries are who work for and your advancement track. That said, you don't have to tell the truth when people ask, not even your co-workers but the big bosses know whose your payroll you are on. Different Ministries that serve the same Exarch are examples of irreconcilable differences, usually based methodolgy/toolkit (not Methodology). Eg. Mammon is about greed & materialism as tools of oppression but the Pantechnicon is more about walled garden technocracy but both are dedicated to the Chancellor.

                The Iron Pyramid is opaque for a reason, it lets you mess about with cross Ministry pylons for required infrastructure and still have them beholden to Ministries that are actively hostile or acting on cross purposes. Heck the pylons don't have tell the other pylons who they work for or their places in the hierarchy. The way Seer pylons operate is almost like a covert cell, though they do have more access to their bosses. Even if their regional bosses are demigods in sub-dimensions attached this reality. Not counting those who have a door to upper management in their souls.

                But for a quick, consolidated look at the ministries, they are listed below, by their Exarchs & with prelacy Crowns for those who have officially described. With the exception of the Kyrian Ministry because they serve two Exarchs (the Prophet and the Ruin).
                • [Unity] Hegemonic, Logthetes; Crown of Obligation
                • [Eye] Panopticon, Phemian; Crown of Vision
                • [General] Praetorian, Herodian; Crown of Fury
                • [Father] Paternoster, Dolusian; Crown of Doctrine
                • [Chancellor] Mammon, Pantechnicon; Crown of Scarcity
                • [Prophet] Horologian; Crown of Agency
                • [Raptor] Sycorian; Crown of Instinct
                • [Nemesis] Orphean, Geryon; Crown of Secrecy
                • [Reaper] Rhadmantian;
                • [Ruin] Periasmon;
                That is all the listed Ministries. There is no Secret Order of the Gate (Abyssal/Scelesti Legacy), there are no Gatekeepers
                You may not worship the Gate.
                The Exarchs have seven general orders/priorities that they agree on to give to the Seers as a whole. My favourite one is "Protect Humanity" but "Regulate the Abyss" is also fun.


                Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

                Comment


                • #23
                  A thing that used to come up in the past was what would motivated the enthusiastic participation of the Seers, and while I think that the last few years have actually proven a fairly stark example of how eagerly some people will go along with toxic hierarchical systems, I think one thing in particular is to focus on the point about how they are emphatically not the inventors of human misery.

                  There's a bit in the novel Good Omens (and possibly the Amazon adaptation series, I've never watched it) where the demon Crowley, assigned to matters of human corruption since the Garden of Eden, recalls his bosses having given him credit and a lot of praise for the Spanish Inquisition. Crowley is supposed to have been totally unaware of what that was until he receives such credit, and upon finding out needs to take a long vacation to recover from what he's witnessed.

                  I think of such a thing as a model for the Seers, but with a slight adjustment. One where it's not just a matter that, upon seeing this example and innovation of systemic human cruelty, they latch onto it, embedding themselves within its structures for the purposes of individually profiting from it as well as expanding its scope and deepening its commitment, but where they use it as their justification itself. That indoctrination as a Seer of the Throne points to the example of such a thing and says "the fact that they come up with such things on their own means that it's exactly what they deserve", with maybe a side order of victim blaming for the people who end up persecuted (i.e. the fact that they're vulnerable to such a thing means that they also deserve it).

                  I think much can be done to make the Seers feel organic and tie them more closely to the game's themes and cosmology if there's this idea that these are people who are given a peek behind the curtain of reality, especially of what's going on inside of people's heads, and what they find there just fills them with disillusionment and contempt. That it's not just a simple matter of "we're elevated, so we're entitled" but that directly seeing the ways in which people independently come up with and eagerly participate in such systems means they deserve little better. Even the "protect the Sleepers" commandment might be seen in a context where the main thing they need to be protected from is themselves, and so it's not a thing done from a position of valuing human life.

                  It's not the kind of thing that should be an honest or rational reading of people in general, mind, I would think a lot of it is owed to the terms in which Seer mentors frame and present it; that they don't necessarily fabricate outright so much as curate examples when doing things like showing new recruits some of their projects or how to observe with Mage Sight. But I think it can be the kind of thing that makes them more compelling and sinister antagonists, especially if they're ever given the opportunity to communicate their beliefs to player (or adjacent) characters as part of a pitch to recruit them, or at least undermine their own commitment.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X