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  • Dataweaver
    started a topic Legacies of the Planets

    Legacies of the Planets

    I recently read Planet Narnia, a book that advances the theory that C.S. Lewis wrote his Chronicles of Narnia so that each book would illustrate the character of a different astrological planet. That got me thinking about the astrological planets; and that in turn got me thinking about the idea of crafting a set of Legacies for Mage, in a manner similar to the Elemental Masteries. A preliminary outline:

    • the Mercurial Legacy is associated with the Acanthus and the Free Council, and features Space. Attainments should deal with travel and communications. It should also have a trickster element to it.

    • the Venerial Legacy is associated with the Thyrsus and the Mysterium (the latter because of its “magic is alive” perspective), and features Life. Its Attainments should deal with fertility and nurture, and beginnings.

    • the Martial Legacy is associated with the Mastigos and the Adamantine Arrow, and features Forces. I'm a little unsure of what to do with this one, as it's a nearly perfect fit for the Adamantine Arrow philosophically.

    • the Jovial Legacy is associated with the Obrimos and the Silver Ladder, and features Prime. Its Attainments should deal in some way with inspiring leadership.

    • the Saturnine Legacy is associated with the Moros and the Guardians of the Veil, and features Time. Not entirely sure about the Attainments, yet.

    These would be the main five. Though just like there are additional Elemental Masteries, there could be other Legacies based on astrological symbols, e.g. a Solar Legacy and a Lunar Legacy. But for now, I want to focus on the main five, outlined above.

    Thoughts?

  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I tried looking them up earlier, and couldn't find anything that would be useful to this. So probably not.

    To clarify: what I was looking for was something to the effect of “this is what Jupiter is like” in a manner similar to what werewolf has to say about what Luna is like. What I found was “the planets have Angels much like Luna has lunes”. And then nothing; no information about what a planetary angel is like, even in a general sense, let alone with the kind of specificity that would be needed to infer what the spiritual characteristics of particular planets would be.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 10-06-2021, 04:38 PM.

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  • Demigod Beast
    replied
    Will planetary angels (from Shunhed by the Moon) be involved in this, somehow?

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  • Errol216
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    If you want to use Subtle Arcana for all five Legacies, then you probably want the Saturnines to feature Fate rather than Time.
    Derp. Yeah. You can tell how long it's been since I thought about this stuff.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Thinking about this some more, I'd really like there to be a sort of heaven and Earth duality between these planetary Legacies and the elemental masteries. So the idea of most if not all of the planetary Legacies having subtle Arcana worked fine by me. I'd be inclined to go with “most”, as associating Saturn with Time is too good to pass up.

    As for the others:

    Mercury works best with Mind, given its focus on language and communications.

    I could see Jupiter being Fate, with more of a focus on bringing fortune: the good king rewarding those who serve him.

    I really think that Awakening goofed when it associated Venus with the Acanthus rather than the Thyrsus, as the whole “visceral” thing that the Thyrsus have going fits her so well; but what's done is done. But maybe some of that could be recovered by associating her with Spirit.

    And for Mars, I could see something of a Valhalla theme through Death.

    If I had to sum up there personalities in one word each, Mercury would be tricky, Venus would be carnal, Mars would be aggressive, Jupiter would be inspiring, and Saturn would be somber. That said, I don't think that one word summaries really do them justice. Saturn, for example, would also be patient; a long-term planner. Mars is also courageous, and is as much about standing firm as he is about charging in: determined and loyal as well as valor. And so on.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 10-06-2021, 11:21 AM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    If you want to use Subtle Arcana for all five Legacies, then you probably want the Saturnines to feature Fate rather than Time.

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  • Errol216
    replied
    Did a bit of research into Planet Narnia and Wikipedia's table for mental/emotional correspondences, bounced some stuff around between what's already been said, and here's what I've got.

    Mercurial: the Shadow Speakers. Thyrsus/Council/Prime. "Artists use lies to tell the truth." Mercury is a well-traveled god, but in today's world, physical travel isn't important. The important thing is that the truth reaches the ears that need to hear it, and the lightspeed of the information superhighway can be leveraged for that. Mercurials encode their truth in multiple layers: in metaphorical meaning, as apocalypticists of old did; into digital binary, so that it can travel the copper fibers beneath the ground; and by mathematical encryption, so that the truth reaches precisely who must hear it. They are poets who talk in code, painting the airwaves, and their voice encompasses the earth.

    Venerials: Fortuna Minor. Acanthus/Mysterium/Mind. "A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life." Venus is more than pleasure and life, but as both Morning and Evening Star, she is two-faced. Venerials are matchmakers, but not always of blessed unions. They orchestrate chance meetings as the catalyst to set some great event into motion, and those meetings may cause more mayhem than matrimony. The Venerial knows the lie that separates human beings from one another and is happy to twist it into the service of a greater plan.

    Martials: the Pain Takers. Mastigos/Arrow/Spirit. "No shadow will be safe again. For you will be hunted by angels." Mars is a contradiction: a fine fighting frenzy, lost to the chaos of the melee, and the ordered discipline of soldiers in concert, stepping together to stab. A threshing machine of violence. The Martials accept both sides, having rejected the inner world of Goetia for the outermost one of the Shadow, they ritually reshape both spirits and their own soul to create a parasitic chaining of spirits. At moments of need, the Martial undergoes an ecstatic experience, inducing an explosion of emotional resonance with which the spirits are wielded as weapons.

    Jovials: Crisis Doctors. Obrimos/Ladder/Death. "So, Damocles, since this life delights you, do you wish to taste it yourself and make trial of my fortune?" The Jovials are, almost to a soul, all Lictors. They learn the Lex and they are the Lex. They travel specifically in search of Consilia in crisis, a crow ahead of the coming storm, or an apparition appearing in its midst. They want to be at the crossroads of change, to be midwives of a new order, and to seal it in with finality. And they make themselves useful, providing an outside perspective and a strict interpretation of codes and bylaws. But what they want is to be kingmakers, building thrones out of nothing but their faith in law and setting upon them worthy replicas of Jupiter.

    Saturnines: the Long Mourners. Moros/Guardians/Time. There is never enough time for grief, and every Saturnine knows this, for they have come to grief. Grief consumes, saturates the mind, makes action impossible. Therefore the Saturnine bends Time to her will, creating space to think, to feel, to mourn, to recover, to plan. Saturnines tend to gather together for both emotional support and teaching each other in their Legacy.

    ---

    So..., I thoroughly ran out of steam for Saturn. But to explain my thinking, I zeroed in on Mercury being the rogue of the bunch, pinged off the V quote, and gave it a modern-y, Council-ish twist where human behavior inspires magical expression. With Venus, the happy accident is that I really wanted to use Subtle Arcana for all of them, so Mind seemed the most appropriate and pairing that with Acanthus and the usual romance stuff created a kind of heartstring manipulator deal with some flexibility. The Mysterium fit that mold in the sense that magical "great events" could be brought about in this way, ...like maybe Awakenings. With Mars, I dug back into the Athenian idea of Ares' battle frenzy and tried to wrap that with Roman legionnaire-y vibes. Forcibly binding spirits into tools is also a fairly Arrow way to handle things.

    With Jupiter, my main thing bounced through Obrimos priestliness and Death as a transition from thing to thing. The Gandalf reference is also deliberate. Wikipedia says zang-fu associates anger/kindness with Jupiter, and I think that fits the kingly not-king image. And with Saturn, the Wikipedia gave me joy/anxiety and the word saturnine was like... deep emotions. That's about as far as I got there, though, in addition to a Moros tendency to break wholes down into parts to rebuild them as new wholes. It feels like this'd be useful for Guardians, too.

    Incidentally, the Wikipedia says grief is Venus, not Saturn. But passion/fear fits well with the hacker ethos I gave the Mercurials. :shrug:
    Last edited by Errol216; 10-06-2021, 01:54 AM. Reason: added a linky

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  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    So, speak with beasts allows one to speak with animals, with the reach for all of certain type of animal (humans) you can speak with anyone. Something that might be useful for a messenger.
    Last edited by TempleBuilder; 10-04-2021, 12:24 AM.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Huh. Okay; I'll swap them. Odd…
    Venus is probably there for a combination of the goddess's associations with prosperity, victory, and love, the fact that there's no Planet Cupid in classical astronomy (note the Path weapons for the Acanthus), and the collection/harvesting connotations of its associated Metal/Gold element in the Wuxing, among others; it's a very Fateful set of associations, once one steps outside the carnal connotations of the Roman goddess's portfolio.

    By a similar tenor, a planet named for a messenger/psychopomp figure presiding over travel, boundaries, and communication isn't too hard to hitch to the Shamans, especially when Mercury's associated Water element in the Wuxing links back to the Moon and confusion between the caduceus and the asklepian puts medical/life-commanding associations on the table.


    Given that the Elemental Masteries ended up in a sort of mix between Nameless Orders and incorporated into the Free Council, I'm not sure there's much to be gained from specifically associating them with parts of the Pentacle.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I am aware of what that word is most commonly associated with these days. I'm using it in its original meaning.

    Ahh that makes sense. I'm sorry, I should have investigated it more closely.

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  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    If this was mage the ascension, I'd probably go with the notion of the technocratic version of correspondence being data. As is, space has a lot about sympathetic links, which might kind of be thought of as lines of communication, and the examination of which can potentially render meaning. It's a bit of a stretch, though.
    I actually did just that with my 2E conversion of the Subtle Ones Legacy, though iirc it was just for the first two or so Attainments.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    If this was mage the ascension, I'd probably go with the notion of the technocratic version of correspondence being data. As is, space has a lot about sympathetic links, which might kind of be thought of as lines of communication, and the examination of which can potentially render meaning. It's a bit of a stretch, though.

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  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    If only legacies included a way to handle individual spells that fit the Legacy concept but don't necessarily fit with any of it s Ruling Arcana. Oh well; I guess the language thing won't work after all.
    Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we aren’t thinking enough outside the box. What can overlap Journeys and Communication?
    Fate kinda can. It doesn’t have the super speed or teleportation, but you will always know where you need to go. Fate can ease the Journey, and can help you find the right words to say.
    Forces can make one speedy, far faster than any other arcanum can alone. You can climb and fly with Forces. And Forces effects your voice, allow you to speak through walls, or be heard from any distance, with a clever knowing spell on who you need to speak to. Forces makes your voice the clearest, most perfect thing. Kinda like striking looks but for your voice. It’s not Prime, shakes your soul levels of communication but it’s something.
    Another thing to consider is having Attainments with more Arcanum added. Like the ultimatum speed Time/Space/Forces spell. Maybe add Life so you can handle the sheer speed. Or maybe just have whatever Arcanum you want, and just set them from the Paths perspective.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    If only legacies included a way to handle individual spells that fit the Legacy concept but don't necessarily fit with any of it s Ruling Arcana. Oh well; I guess the language thing won't work after all.

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  • TempleBuilder
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    TempleBuilder: not just travel; communication, too. Masters of language.
    Yeah… Not sure how to do that with Space or Time/Fate. Communication is normally Mind/Prime, with Forces or Matter as a medium, right? Is Space enough to do journeys on its own?
    *Looks at Satchel’s post*
    Well, that changes things. Maybe Space/Life then? Doesn’t really have communication aspect, unless Space can manage that. Maybe Spirit? Feels off, somehow.

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