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Purge Illness and genetic conditions

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  • Purge Illness and genetic conditions

    Greetings,

    Does the Purge Illness spell work on genetic conditions? Lets say Multiple Sclerosis, autoimmune diseases (Lupus) or a Cancer? I would think those require a lasting effect but I am unsure.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by lbeaumanior; 11-20-2021, 11:44 PM.

  • #2
    Gut instinct says no. I feel manipulating genetic stuff is for Patterning. Maybe Weaving, but certainly not Ruling.


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    • #3
      Given the name I would feel as though it needs to be something that can be purged, so it cleans out things like pathogens but not what arises from innate flaws in the subject.

      I would say there are cases where a Ruling of Life can relieve certain key symptoms; it's not enough to totally cure Cystic Fibrosis, but it can at least clear the airways.

      There are cancers that arise from genetic conditions, but cancer itself is not one; most cancers occur as a result of some circumstantial damage to the initial cancerous cells that causes the uncontrolled replication. I'd say the spell can purge those cells to a point that leaves somebody completely cancer free (although the condition of the body might still have a capacity for cells to become cancerous again in future).


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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      • #4
        I'd say that you have to read about the illness first, but a baseline no is fair.

        Specifically speaking, altering the DNA of the whole body should be beyond this spell, period. Your DNA is part of the baseline of your body, "cleansing" it isn't actually a thing.

        But that said, genetic condition are a tricky concept on themselves. Each one has a distinct mechanism between being in the DNA and actually manifesting. So depending on the trigger of the symptoms, if you can see something in the disease that is external and the condition makes you sensible to that stimulus instead of fated to get sick, then sure.

        ​Or cases like Isator Levi said, mutated cells causing harm are eliminated because they're not an original part of your DNA. Symptoms that arise as localized build-ups of fluids, cysts, fibers, whatever, may be alleviated or even eliminated (for the time being) with a casting.

        A little warning, though: DNA correction is a sensible matter. Although valid in itself, the study of genetic conditions intersects with discussions ranging from Eugenics to Forced Therapy, and have some bad stories among the disabled community. It isn't a one-sided question, but bears to keep this in mind.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
          I'd say that you have to read about the illness first, but a baseline no is fair.

          Specifically speaking, altering the DNA of the whole body should be beyond this spell, period. Your DNA is part of the baseline of your body, "cleansing" it isn't actually a thing.

          But that said, genetic condition are a tricky concept on themselves. Each one has a distinct mechanism between being in the DNA and actually manifesting. So depending on the trigger of the symptoms, if you can see something in the disease that is external and the condition makes you sensible to that stimulus instead of fated to get sick, then sure.

          ​Or cases like Isator Levi said, mutated cells causing harm are eliminated because they're not an original part of your DNA. Symptoms that arise as localized build-ups of fluids, cysts, fibers, whatever, may be alleviated or even eliminated (for the time being) with a casting.
          Thanks, totally agree here.


          Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
          A little warning, though: DNA correction is a sensible matter. Although valid in itself, the study of genetic conditions intersects with discussions ranging from Eugenics to Forced Therapy, and have some bad stories among the disabled community. It isn't a one-sided question, but bears to keep this in mind.
          Here I am lost, as English is not my native language be mindful of potential misunderstandings, that being said... What relevance does this have to the topic? I am not aware of disabled communities opinion relevance to the fact that some biological issues arise from mutated DNA, meaning difference vs baseline chromosomal count, or uncontrolled replication, or autoimmune disorders, etc.

          I have with MS, and my opinion makes no difference to the fact that it is a negative abnormality compared to baseline humans.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
            Here I am lost, as English is not my native language be mindful of potential misunderstandings, that being said... What relevance does this have to the topic? I am not aware of disabled communities opinion relevance to the fact that some biological issues arise from mutated DNA, meaning difference vs baseline chromosomal count, or uncontrolled replication, or autoimmune disorders, etc.

            I have with MS, and my opinion makes no difference to the fact that it is a negative abnormality compared to baseline humans.
            Because people have extraordinary ability to conflate fact and opinion to believe things are “problematic”, when they are not. Now, you are probably thinking of MS as a disease to be cured, which is laudable, but surely you would think that “curing” whatever skin color you have is pointless and insulting. People have tried their best to do just that multiple times through human history, under many justifications. Except they didn’t have magic, and “cured” people by sterilizing them or killing them, or just used it to justify awful behavior towards others. All monteparnas is saying is that some may be sensitive to discussion that gene therapy brings. So be careful.


            To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

            So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
              Here I am lost, as English is not my native language be mindful of potential misunderstandings, that being said... What relevance does this have to the topic? I am not aware of disabled communities opinion relevance to the fact that some biological issues arise from mutated DNA, meaning difference vs baseline chromosomal count, or uncontrolled replication, or autoimmune disorders, etc.

              I have with MS, and my opinion makes no difference to the fact that it is a negative abnormality compared to baseline humans.
              That was an advice that discussions on the topic may touch sensible points of others and raise unexpected reactions. And that a ruling about a cleansing spell may bring unintended readings.

              My Autism is as genetic as your MS, yet my relationship with it and even with how's the best way to define it in medical terms is quite difference. The topic isn't about you more than it is about me, though, so you don't own all the facts involved.

              Just be aware of that and do with it what you will.


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              #AutismPride
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              • #8
                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                My Autism is as genetic as your MS, yet my relationship with it and even with how's the best way to define it in medical terms is quite difference.
                Oh, have doctors finally figured out what causes Autism and Aspergers Syndrome? Last I checked, (like 10 years ago) it was undetermined. It's weird how I'm constantly surprised by the passage of time when it's literally the most predictable thing in the universe.”

                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                The topic isn't about you more than it is about me, though, so you don't own all the facts involved.
                The tone of this feels a bit more angrier than perhaps was meant, or if meant than is perhaps is necessary. I’m not sure how anyone owns facts, or even really understand the concept, but I do understand the context of what was said, and I don’t feel that was what Ibeaumanior was saying. I think it was them speaking more from their own experience about how negatively their MS has effected their life than a jab at anyone else. It was perhaps phrased badly.


                To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                  Here I am lost, as English is not my native language be mindful of potential misunderstandings, that being said... What relevance does this have to the topic? I am not aware of disabled communities opinion relevance to the fact that some biological issues arise from mutated DNA, meaning difference vs baseline chromosomal count, or uncontrolled replication, or autoimmune disorders, etc.
                  It matters because advocacy groups can be disturbed at the idea that conditions that define the entirety of their lives being casually referred to in terms of flaws to be corrected.

                  That doesn't apply to every possible condition. I'd say it should be considered more in regards to something inborn and lifelong like cerebral palsy.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the answers from all.

                    Originally posted by TempleBuilder View Post
                    The tone of this feels a bit more angrier than perhaps was meant, or if meant than is perhaps is necessary. I’m not sure how anyone owns facts, or even really understand the concept, but I do understand the context of what was said, and I don’t feel that was what Ibeaumanior was saying. I think it was them speaking more from their own experience about how negatively their MS has effected their life than a jab at anyone else. It was perhaps phrased badly.
                    This resonates with me, it might be idiomatic, but no idea how facts can be owned. Is it an English expression?

                    And for monteparnas I do also have autism, but again why would that matter to the point of facts vs opinions? I dont consider my autism to diminish me in the way that MS does, it is just different behaviours and ways to interpret the world, but even then it would not change the fact that I am different to the average person, and in the case of MS, it is something that has no positive effect in my life, at all.





                    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                    Given the name I would feel as though it needs to be something that can be purged, so it cleans out things like pathogens but not what arises from innate flaws in the subject.

                    I would say there are cases where a Ruling of Life can relieve certain key symptoms; it's not enough to totally cure Cystic Fibrosis, but it can at least clear the airways.

                    There are cancers that arise from genetic conditions, but cancer itself is not one; most cancers occur as a result of some circumstantial damage to the initial cancerous cells that causes the uncontrolled replication. I'd say the spell can purge those cells to a point that leaves somebody completely cancer free (although the condition of the body might still have a capacity for cells to become cancerous again in future).

                    Coming back to the original question, yes, the Purge Illness spell seems to be focused on removing microorganisms or material causing illness. Will it work with radiation sickness then?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                      Coming back to the original question, yes, the Purge Illness spell seems to be focused on removing microorganisms or material causing illness. Will it work with radiation sickness then?
                      Hmm...

                      I'd say for that one, a couple dots of Forces should be added, if it's a case that the body has absorbed some radioactive material. But that's tentative until I refresh my memory on the details of how radiation sickness works (such as if it is continuous past the point of exposure to a source of radiation).


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                        This resonates with me, it might be idiomatic, but no idea how facts can be owned. Is it an English expression?
                        Not one I’ve seen. But I miss most of the new slang and stuff anyways by not talking to people.

                        Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                        And for monteparnas I do also have autism, but again why would that matter to the point of facts vs opinions? I dont consider my autism to diminish me in the way that MS does, it is just different behaviours and ways to interpret the world, but even then it would not change the fact that I am different to the average person, and in the case of MS, it is something that has no positive effect in my life, at all.
                        Yes. You are coming from a very valid viewpoint, but you managed to phrase it in a way that sounds incredibly condescending when read with a different mindset. Like I said, I do not believe that was your intent, but it’s done now.

                        Not really relevant to anything, but I wonder what is the percentage of people on this forum with some form of Atusim? Because that’s 3 on this thread to my current count. (I have Aspergers)

                        Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                        Coming back to the original question, yes, the Purge Illness spell seems to be focused on removing microorganisms or material causing illness. Will it work with radiation sickness then?
                        Hmm. So this is one of those edge cases where the symbolism rules might override physical rules. Because it’s outside damage, it’s not really symbolically different than a virus or other illness. So it should work, despite requiring effectively the same thing as the genetic illness from earlier. If you want a science coating, isn’t there a process by which DNA gets repaired? (Not a Biology person)


                        To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                        So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                          Hmm...

                          I'd say for that one, a couple dots of Forces should be added, if it's a case that the body has absorbed some radioactive material. But that's tentative until I refresh my memory on the details of how radiation sickness works (such as if it is continuous past the point of exposure to a source of radiation).
                          Erm…why add Forces? Radiation sickness is just damage to the genetic code, it doesn’t make you radioactive. Otherwise you would need forces to cure a sunburn. I’m not even sure if you would need Forces to cure that problem where radioactive material is converted into your bones and stuff.


                          To whomever reads this, I hope you have a good day/night. May you be Happy.

                          So, I made some Mage Legacies here, with some help. They vary in quality, but I hope you take a look at them. Every one contains pieces of me, for better or worse.

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                          • #14
                            Isn't DNA a part of the Lie?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aleksay View Post
                              Isn't DNA a part of the Lie?
                              I don't think so. It's just a part of the Fallen World.


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