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  • #16
    that said, I understand that my original post did not convey that sentiment, & I apologize that I wasn't that clear.

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    • #17
      Seekers of Perfection: A legacy of Mastigos who believe that Lichdom is too extreme of a path towards immortality, and who's cost outweighs the benefits. Instead, they believe the limitations of the physical body can be overcome by transferring their minds into immortal constructs. By transcending their bodily functions, they can devote the rest of their time to honing their minds! In exchange for sacrificing their talent in Space, they have replaced it with Matter, the previous weakness of the Mastigos. By combining Mind and Matter, they strive to create the perfect Golem host for them to transfer into.




      Spinners of Fate: A Left-Handed (and exclusively female) legacy of Arcanthus who operate in teams consisting of no more or less than 3 members. They believe that their powers entitle them to play goddess with the lives of others (primarily Sleepers who can't fight back), and use their power over Fate to shape the events of those around them, severing their threads once their usefulness has run out. Their organization is modeled after the Sisters of Fate from Greek mythology. Their cabals have one member dedicated to controlling each period of the time line (past, present, and future).




      The Magical Restoration Agency: A legacy of Thyrsus who dedicate their powers to helping the world heal from the destruction imposed on it by human society and supernatural disasters. They rejuvenate burned and rotting forests, cleanse polluted lakes, and basically seek to heal the world and its creatures from the various maladies that plague it. Sleepers take notice of a charred forest springing back to life overnight, however, so their magic is a slow process that will not draw too much attention. It may take longer than they wish it to, but their magic can bring hope back to what was previously a lost cause. In addition to the Arcana of Life and Spirit, they also study the Arcana of Matter, giving them the most effective means of healing magic.
      Last edited by Nyrufa; 06-05-2014, 01:09 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Freemind
        that said, I understand that my original post did not convey that sentiment, & I apologize that I wasn't that clear.
        No need to. I'm glad that there are people like you helping people out. That rocks.


        So..., custom Legacies, I may have written a bunch of them over the years, in no particular order:

        Exemplars: Arcana specialists created by a very special type of Auctoritas Arcanum. They get better at one side of their Path by sacrifying their conection to the other.

        Horizon Seekers: a Legacy of travelers and explorers.

        Tamers of Iron: a Mastigos Legacy with a will as sharp as their blades.

        Unnamed Astral Legacy: summoners of platonic elementals from the Anima Mundi.

        The Pack: werewolf-like shapeshifter mages

        Liches: clasic "hide my soul in a phylactery and reanimate my own corpse" type of mage.

        The Cult: an infernalist Legacy that gets infernal powers (mimicking Castigation Endowments) but that show their corruption by hellish telltales.

        Hematomancers: mages that get power from the blood and tap into its sympathetic properties.

        Verbena: a variant of the Hematomancers.


        I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
          Seekers of Perfection: A Left-Handed legacy of Mastigos who believe that Lichdom is too extreme of a path towards immortality, and who's cost outweighs the benefits. Instead, they believe the limitations of the physical body can be overcome by transferring their minds into immortal constructs. By transcending their bodily functions, they can devote the rest of their time to honing their minds! In exchange for sacrificing their talent in Space, they have replaced it with Matter, the previous weakness of the Mastigos. By combining Mind and Matter, they strive to create the perfect Golem host for them to transfer into.
          I'm not sure why these guys are Left-Handed as described. I mean, sure, they're probably not the Wisest on the whole, but unless they are harming those around them for their power they just seem a bit short-sighted.
          Unless this is one of those "they didn't tell you everything about your legacy" situations. Which could be really cool if explored more. Maybe the process inherently drives the mages towards a cruel and dispassionate mindset without the hormones of a physical body to encourage emotions, and as such they effectively turn themselves into irrevocable monsters? Perhaps they actually become linked into and subsumed by a hive-mind intelligence upon achieving their final attainment, and that intelligence has an ancient grudge against the Pentacle orders (Thanks to DaveB's excellent Actual Play, the Soul Cage for that idea)?

          All in all, I like the idea, but it needs a bit more articulation of why it's left-handed. Also perhaps it links into the tick-tock ghost known as the Schafer Movement from page 108 of Night Horrors: The unbidden.
          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
          Spinners of Fate: A Left-Handed (and exclusively female) legacy of Arcanthus who operate in teams consisting of no more or less than 3 members. They believe that their powers entitle them to play goddess with the lives of others (primarily Sleepers who can't fight back), and use their power over Fate to shape the events of those around them, severing their threads once their usefulness has run out. Their organization is modeled after the Sisters of Fate from Greek mythology. Their cabals have one member dedicated to controlling each period of the time line (past, present, and future).
          Again, I'm not seeing why these gals would be necessarily left-handed. A fair number of Acanthus already do that sort of thing, it's sort of par-for-the-course for powerful characters with control over time and fate. Sure I can definitely see crazy cabals of this legacy causing problems, but it takes more than a few bad apples to get an entire legacy declared left-handed... typically it requires an element of the attainment itself to be damaging to the soul, morality, or sanity of the mages entering it.
          Though its certainly true that a legacy of entirely Evil-with-a-capital-E mages can be declared left-handed even if their legacy is all about ponies. Everyone will just go "Erm, everyone who's ever been in that legacy killed toddlers for a hobby. And they're all in that legacy. Best not to take chances, maybe there's something sinister about the Supernal symbol for ponies that we haven't discovered yet."
          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
          The Magical Restoration Agency: A legacy of Thyrsus who dedicate their powers to helping the world heal from the destruction imposed on it by human society and supernatural disasters. They rejuvenate burned and rotting forests, cleanse polluted lakes, and basically seek to heal the world and its creatures from the various maladies that plague it. Sleepers take notice of a charred forest springing back to life overnight, however, so their magic is a slow process that will not draw too much attention. It may take longer than they wish it to, but their magic can bring hope back to what was previously a lost cause. In addition to the Arcana of Life and Spirit, they also study the Arcana of Matter, giving them the most effective means of healing magic.
          I hope it doesn't come across as if I have a vendetta against your ideas. I actually quite like this one... though what if it was actually a Moros legacy? Necromancers focused on fighting their reputation as death obsessed and exploring the intricate dance of life and decay through nature with Matter and Life as the Legacy's primary Arcana.
          I could even see a similar Acanthus legacy with Life and Time to rewind pieces of nature to an earlier time, or to undo the damages of man in a way that is perfectly in line with what once was.

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          • #20
            As for the original topic of the post, so as to actually contribute something other than analysis:

            The Scavengers of the Farthest Shore: A legacy of skilled Astral Travelers that is currently under scrutiny for left-handedness, the Scavengers of the Farthest Shore are fascinated by the various creatures and objects that wash up on the shores of the Ocean Oroboros. They believe that the twisted things that wash up on the shores are actually abyssal reflections or permutations of what has been lost within the Ocean's black depths over the ages - and that with proper study, fragments of the time before the abyss can be seen within their twisted forms.
            Obviously this legacy is prone to low-wisdom madmen who are easily tempted by the Abyss they study, but the legacy is difficult to detect... as part of their first Attainment is casting away the magical signs of their legacy into the Ocean Oroboros. Later attainments also involve casting parts of themselves into that same devouring ocean, but make them incredibly skilled Astral Travelers.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Thorbes View Post

              No need to. I'm glad that there are people like you helping people out. That rocks.
              Yeah. Worked for a college health center for a bit, doing general counseling and specific to sexual abuse, assault and rape. Part of what pushed me further down the path of medicine, looking back at it. Hopefully I made some impact for the short time I worked in that role.

              Anyway...

              Originally posted by Anachronistic Jam View Post
              I hope it doesn't come across as if I have a vendetta against your ideas. I actually quite like this one... though what if it was actually a Moros legacy? Necromancers focused on fighting their reputation as death obsessed and exploring the intricate dance of life and decay through nature with Matter and Life as the Legacy's primary Arcana.
              I could even see a similar Acanthus legacy with Life and Time to rewind pieces of nature to an earlier time, or to undo the damages of man in a way that is perfectly in line with what once was.
              I don't know about Moros for this, simply because one of the keys in the description of most Moros is that their awakening imparts on them the idea that everything is base and doomed to death and entropy except the human soul, and that even their own life is just a serious of processes meant to hold a human soul to this world... so the idea they would shift their world view to fighting such a thing is odd. I do like acanthus though.

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              • #22
                That's fair about the Moros... though I could see a Moros whose goal is to increase the life in the world and thereby also increase the number of things that do pass away.

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                • #23
                  I am not going to list the full legacy idea unless people want, but just give the overview:

                  Legionem vigilent custodes (Legion of the Vigilant Watchmen): An order of watchmen who are beholden only to the Supernal Truths of Law, Justice, and Mercy. They claim descent from the original police force of the Awakened City, and now are drawn only from Obrimos and Thyrsus mages who belong to the Adamantine Order. They are the equivalent of SWAT and a detectives, their purpose to track down those whose use of magic has endangered the safety of both reality and its denizens. They develop their soul to let them suppress the magic of others, while also fortifying their bodies to allow them to physically overcome and detain them. Those with sufficient skill can track their prey no matter where they flee.

                  Only available to Obrimos and Thyrsus of the adamantine order.
                  Requires Oath 2 (Adamantine Arrow only merit), with all 2 dots dedicated to the oath taken upon swearing into the order. The mage does not get any benefit beyond admission to the legacy, but still suffers all penalties for breaking the oath. Each additional attainment after the first requires an additional dot of the merit dedicated to it (i.e. two attainments rquires at least oath 3 with all dots dedicated to the legacy oath) with the negative penalty still intact.
                  Nickname: Watchmen, Coppers
                  Prime Arcana: Life and Prime (Obrimos get life, Thyrsus get Prime);Optional Arcana: Space Conjunctional Arcana: Mind

                  Note: It is a powerful legacy in our game (not Celestial Masters bad, but definitely dangerous) but the Oath component acts as a way to balance it out. The reason we went AA vs GotV was because the player who suggested it wanted to base the personality of the legacy off of Sam Vimes from Discworld.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Anachronistic Jam View Post
                    I'm not sure why these guys are Left-Handed as described. I mean, sure, they're probably not the Wisest on the whole, but unless they are harming those around them for their power they just seem a bit short-sighted.
                    Unless this is one of those "they didn't tell you everything about your legacy" situations. Which could be really cool if explored more. Maybe the process inherently drives the mages towards a cruel and dispassionate mindset without the hormones of a physical body to encourage emotions, and as such they effectively turn themselves into irrevocable monsters? Perhaps they actually become linked into and subsumed by a hive-mind intelligence upon achieving their final attainment, and that intelligence has an ancient grudge against the Pentacle orders (Thanks to DaveB's excellent Actual Play, the Soul Cage for that idea)?

                    All in all, I like the idea, but it needs a bit more articulation of why it's left-handed. Also perhaps it links into the tick-tock ghost known as the Schafer Movement from page 108 of Night Horrors: The unbidden. Again, I'm not seeing why these gals would be necessarily left-handed. A fair number of Acanthus already do that sort of thing, it's sort of par-for-the-course for powerful characters with control over time and fate. Sure I can definitely see crazy cabals of this legacy causing problems, but it takes more than a few bad apples to get an entire legacy declared left-handed... typically it requires an element of the attainment itself to be damaging to the soul, morality, or sanity of the mages entering it.
                    Though its certainly true that a legacy of entirely Evil-with-a-capital-E mages can be declared left-handed even if their legacy is all about ponies. Everyone will just go "Erm, everyone who's ever been in that legacy killed toddlers for a hobby. And they're all in that legacy. Best not to take chances, maybe there's something sinister about the Supernal symbol for ponies that we haven't discovered yet." I hope it doesn't come across as if I have a vendetta against your ideas. I actually quite like this one... though what if it was actually a Moros legacy? Necromancers focused on fighting their reputation as death obsessed and exploring the intricate dance of life and decay through nature with Matter and Life as the Legacy's primary Arcana.
                    I could even see a similar Acanthus legacy with Life and Time to rewind pieces of nature to an earlier time, or to undo the damages of man in a way that is perfectly in line with what once was.


                    The Spinners of Fate were considered to me to be a Left-Hand, because they feel their powers give them a right to mess with people's lives and sculpt them however they desire. Sure, there are plenty of Arcanthus who manipulate fate, but how often do they do it simply because they can, and not because they should? The Spinners twist the lives of others for entertainment or for personal gain, and they believe they are above reproach for doing so. Somebody criticizes their work? Make them go bankrupt when they forget to file their taxes this year. Somebody attempts to stop them, make their family contract a tropical disease while they're on vacation overseas.



                    The Seekers of Perfection are considered Left-Handed, because I think that a group of mages looking to achieve immortality by transferring into soulless bodies would probably raise a few red flags. After all, the Tremere sought to become immortal and look how they turned out; now we've got a legacy of undead mages devouring the souls of everyone they meet! I do like your ideas to the Legacy, however. Maybe I could inflict them with a powerful, gripping fear of death that drives them to sacrifice just about anything (including their own bodies) to escape it.



                    I thought Thyrsus was the most fitting for The Magical Restoration Agency. Their name was intended to be a joke on various environmental protection agencies in the real world. They're sort of like magic wielding hippies (hey, they use crystals, it's a possibility!) who are trying to save the planet. When Sleepers are watching them, they focus on natural damages such as pollution and fires, but when they're in private, they turn their attention to fixing supernatural disasters. Think Ferngully (if you've ever seen that movie). They take a seed, plant it, and use their magic to care for its growth to the point where it can survive where otherwise it could not. Give it a few years and soon that decimated forest will be lush once more.
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 06-05-2014, 12:10 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      The Seekers of Perfection are considered Left-Handed, because I think that a group of mages looking to achieve immortality by transferring into soulless bodies would probably raise a few red flags. After all, the Tremere sought to become immortal and look how they turned out; now we've got a legacy of undead mages devouring the souls of everyone they meet! I do like your ideas to the Legacy, however. Maybe I could inflict them with a powerful, gripping fear of death that drives them to sacrifice just about anything (including their own bodies) to escape it.
                      Tremere aren't Left-Handed because they seek immortality; they're Left-Handed because they consume souls! Any Legacy that requires a Wisdom 1 sin every few months/weeks is going to be branded as Left-Handed, because the councilii don't want a bunch of Wisdom 0 mages running around!


                      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      I thought Thyrsus was the most fitting for The Magical Restoration Agency. Their name was intended to be a joke on various environmental protection agencies in the real world. They're sort of like magic wielding hippies (hey, they use crystals, it's a possibility!) who are trying to save the planet. When Sleepers are watching them, they focus on natural damages such as pollution and fires, but when they're in private, they turn their attention to fixing supernatural disasters. Think Ferngully (if you've ever seen that movie). They take a seed, plant it, and use their magic to care for its growth to the point where it can survive where otherwise it could not. Give it a few years and soon that decimated forest will be lush once more.
                      Also see the newest Maleficent movie for why not to dismiss these people as "magic wielding hippies".


                      Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Infrastructure.

                      Rule #2: Never let the game-mechanics get in the way of a good story.

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                      • #26
                        The thing is though that it normally takes more than just a mindset to make a Legacy Left-Handed. It *can* happen in the case of particularly monstrous individuals and the legacies they create, but in most circumstances Left-Handedness requires the Legacy itself, not merely the philosophy of its constituent members, to be significantly damaging to the Wisdom of its members. It takes a fairly strong consensus among Mages of many Conciliums for a group to be declared Left-Handed on a large scale, and the burden of proof has to be more than just anecdotal. "The Tremere EAT SOULS" is pretty easy, but "Those Acanthus are slightly more prone to being dicks than other Acanthus" is much harder and would take blatant and public disregard for the Lex Megica for Mages as a whole to shun the entire Legacy as inherently evil.

                        TLDR - If the Legacy Attainments themselves encourage or require morality checks, it's likely Left-Handed. Otherwise, it's likely not.

                        On the topic of the Seekers of Perfection, I like the idea, I just think they also need something more clear cut for them to be considered necessarily Left-Handed. Seeking immortality alone is not a Mage taboo, there are more than a few well-respected Legacies within mage society that already grant eternal life... and any mage with an advanced grasp of the Life Arcana can maintain eternal youth with ease.
                        I especially have a hard time seeing that inclination alone as being a problem for mages because unless there's something else about the Legacy other than written, they aren't even risking harm to others around them. It's a common and understandable thing to want to live forever, the fact that they are choosing not to eat souls to achieve endless life would be a check in their favor if anything.

                        As for the Thyrsus... which abbreviates comically down to the MRA, I just like subversions of expectations more than fulfillment of stereotypes; that's just personal preference though. It's easy to envision a Thyrsus as a hippie environmentalist, but harder and more compelling to explain how another Path might use their abilities and shape a Legacy for those same goals.
                        If I were going to have a game with that Legacy in a prominent place (whether they are Thyrsus or otherwise), I'd almost certainly have an antagonistic legacy that opposes the Restoration Agency. Their stance would be that by undoing humanity's damage to the environment, the Agency is protecting humans from ever facing the consequences of their own actions, and therefor encouraging the very behavior that caused the damage in the first place.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paddon View Post

                          Tremere aren't Left-Handed because they seek immortality; they're Left-Handed because they consume souls! Any Legacy that requires a Wisdom 1 sin every few months/weeks is going to be branded as Left-Handed, because the councilii don't want a bunch of Wisdom 0 mages running around!.

                          I meant there is the potential for their immortality to go horribly, horribly wrong once they achieve it.




                          The point I'm trying to make is that they are, essentially, trying to follow in the footsteps of one Legacy that already fucked up horribly. Sure, they may be trying a new approach to fulfilling that goal, but people have been trying for thousands of years to cheat death. Usually there's a good reason why only a handful of people have succeeded (in game terms, not RL).


                          But it seems being risky isn't enough to actually warrant being evil, as Jam pointed out. If we didn't have the Immortals book describing the function of Body Snatchers, I could have made them cheat death by jumping to a new host. I imagine that would qualify as Left-Handed, but sadly it's already taken. D:


                          Seems they don't fit the bill, so I'll edit them no longer be Left-Handed. ^_^

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                          • #28
                            Pointed reminder to all that Left-Handedness is a political category, not a metaphysical one.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              Pointed reminder to all that Left-Handedness is a political category, not a metaphysical one.
                              Right. Which is exactly why a legacy has to be pretty much unquestionably dangerous to the Mages in question or those around them for entire groups of often conflicting Mages to come together in a political movement to decry a Legacy as a whole.
                              It's not one Council that is responsible for declaring a Legacy Left-Handed. It's entire groups of mages. How hard is it to get any group of people to all come together and agree that one specific mentality is not only bad, but punishable by death on sight? Right. It's almost impossible. Now get a majority vote from disparate super-humans that have almost all likely tampered with Things Man Should Not Know that any specific legacy is Evil.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Freemind View Post
                                That said, there is a legacy that is dedicated essentially to BDSM...
                                Kinda. There's a ton of precedent for self-harm as a spiritual practice.

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortif...n_of_the_flesh

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