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  • You are correct. Oops.

    Hmm. Maybe use the merit once per day per dot of Mind without needing to meditate? I dunno. It's not that much different from the spell Prophecy with a reach, so just removing the meditation/sleep requirement sounds valid. (Some limitation seems fair; maybe once per scene.) Nothing leaps to mind.

    Well, actually, something a bit like Serendipity, but cast using Dream might serve. (Limiting to the character's dream goals somehow seems reasonable, too)


    Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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    • How about something like, "The mage becomes comfortable delegating certain tasks to the Oneiropolis, and grows more confident in his ability to interpret the resulting visions and dreams. In practice she gains the ability to use One Mind, Two Thoughts with instant cast time and advanced duration, as well as the reach to perform two instant mental tasks at once. This attainment can only affect the mage herself."


      My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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      • Makes sense to me. That would be one extra Reach with a restriction to self.


        Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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        • Does anybody have ideas for a Legacy of Tarot cartomancers? I can think of Yantras and Oblations fairly easily, but I can't think of any interesting Attainments for them other than "really good at reading your future" ones


          MtAw Homebrew:
          Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
          New 2E Legacies, expanded

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          • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Does anybody have ideas for a Legacy of Tarot cartomancers? I can think of Yantras and Oblations fairly easily, but I can't think of any interesting Attainments for them other than "really good at reading your future" ones
            How about, instead of going the divinations route, if it takes the "This is now your Fate. You are the Chariot. Have fun with it, or else." approach?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
              Does anybody have ideas for a Legacy of Tarot cartomancers? I can think of Yantras and Oblations fairly easily, but I can't think of any interesting Attainments for them other than "really good at reading your future" ones
              The Tarot isn't just used to define the future, it's also used for meditation, communing with the dead or with spirits, etc. If I had to build a Legacy around this idea I would most likely try to do it by having the cards be a dedicated tool for her magics. Ruling Arcanum is Spirit, Optional Arcanum is Time. The Attainments could deal with summoning and coaxing spirits, with optional effects that would mimic divination, postcognition, Choosing the Thread, etc. If you want I can take a whack at putting it together.


              My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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              • Originally posted by Kvark View Post

                The Tarot isn't just used to define the future, it's also used for meditation, communing with the dead or with spirits, etc. If I had to build a Legacy around this idea I would most likely try to do it by having the cards be a dedicated tool for her magics. Ruling Arcanum is Spirit, Optional Arcanum is Time. The Attainments could deal with summoning and coaxing spirits, with optional effects that would mimic divination, postcognition, Choosing the Thread, etc. If you want I can take a whack at putting it together.
                Huh, as an amateur reader myself, I stayed well clear of the spirit stuff I was picturing more of a Mind + Time combo, with Mind used for the meditation and "communing with your own subconsciousness" stuff. But Spirit sounds just as good!

                If you could take a whack, I'd be most grateful. I'm caught up in exams


                MtAw Homebrew:
                Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                • Exams are still looming, but I've got myself caught up so much in this that I couldn't focus without letting it all out.

                  So here's my take on the Clavicularius (well, at least their Attainments):
                  1. The Whispers Within
                    • The Attainment transforms the Solomonist's Goetia representing her Vice into an esoteric; a whispering presence that wades in the conscious mind, standing at that liminal point between the physical and the Astral. The esoteric can communicate with the mage and in turn be affected by her own Mind magic. The Vice-demon cannot supernaturally influence the Solomonist, for it is not yet Manifested in the physical world, but will constantly seduce her into acting on her Vice whenever an opportunity occurs. Resisting the temptation grants her a positive Condition such as Inspired or Steadfast, while succumbing into it gives her a point of Willpower as usual and imposes the Guilty or similar Condition. Should the esoteric be banished or discorporated, it submerges to the Oneiros and recuperates for a day, after which it reenters the Solomonist's psyche.
                    • Optional: Mind 1
                    • The Attainment emulates "One Mind, One Thoughts", with Reach assigned to performing two tasks at the same time. The Solomonist and his Vice-demon work in tandem, but tasks undertaken by the latter will always reflect the Vice it was born out of. The demon will not tempt the mage until its task is finished, and thus the Solomonist does not gain additional effects for resisting or giving into her Vice.
                  2. (Second Attainment)
                    • The Attainment emulates "Gossamer Touch", with Reach assigned to advanced Duration. This Attainment only affects the Solomonist's own Vice-demon, allowing it to physically interact with entities in Spirit-attuned Twilight. Those Twilight entities may not be able to affect or even perceive the esoteric, depending on their capabilities. Also, the Solomonist herself and other mages may affect the Vice-demon with Spirit magic as if it were a spirit, as long as this Attainment is in effect.
                    • Optional: Mind 2
                    • The Attainment emulates "Dream Reaching", with Reach assigned to allowing active engagement in the dream. This Attainment only affects the Solomonist himself, and when used always induces a lucid dream with both the mage and his Vice-demon as main actors. The contest between them is played out as Social Maneuvering with the demon using the same Attributes as the Solomonist, and where both start on Excellent first impressions with each other.
                  3. (Third Attainment)
                    • The Attainment emulates "Spirit Summons", with Reach assigned to giving the entity a single command. This Attainment only affects the Solomonist's own Vice-demon, counting herself Resonant for purposes of preventing Essence Bleed. If the mage has succumbed to the demon's temptations and indulged her Vice just before or as part of summoning the demon, it may be given complex commands. If the mage has resisted the temptation instead, she may instead choose to ignore the Withstand rating of the demon when summoning it. As the Vice-demon is now outside the Oneiros, the Solomonist is not affected by her Vice for the Attainment's Duration.
                    • Optional: Mind 3
                    • (still undecided)
                  4. (Fourth Attainment)
                    • The Attainment emulates "Bind Spirit", with Reach assigned to advanced Duration. This Attainment only affects the Solomonist's own Vice-demon she summoned with the third Attainment, counting herself Open for purposes of applying Manifestations on herself. She must still apply any prerequisite Conditions as normal when binding the demon to something or someone else. If the Solomonist has resisted the demon's temptations when using the third Attainment prior to using this one, she ignores its Withstand rating for this Attainment as well, and may give the demon a number of commands equal to her Mind dots without the need of spells or negotiation. As with the third Attainment, the mage is not affected by her Vice for the Attainment's Duration.
                    • Optional: Mind 4
                    • The Attainment emulates "Psychic Projection", with Reach assigned to advanced Duration. When projected, the Solomonist's psyche wears his Vice-demon as armor, and scores automatic successes equal to his Mind dots when resisting or contesting mind-affecting powers attempting to influence him. However, during projection the mage loses one point of Willpower whenever he passes by an opportunity to indulge his Vice.
                  5. (Fifth Attainment)
                    • The Attainment emulates "Familiar", with Reach assigned to advanced Duration. This ignores the normal Rank limit on the bonded ephemeral entity. As with the third and fourth Attainments, the mage is not affected by her Vice for the Attainment's Duration.
                    • Optional: Mind 5
                    • Whenever the Vice-demon is outside his Oneiros, either from his Attainmens or other magic, the Solomonist enjoys the Vice-removing effect of "Amorality".
                  Last edited by 21C Hermit; 12-01-2016, 04:22 AM. Reason: EDIT: formatting


                  MtAw Homebrew:
                  Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                  New 2E Legacies, expanded

                  Comment


                  • Has there ever been a Legacy dedicated to applying the scientific method to magic, a la the Null Mysteriis from Hunter? Their Attainments could be based around not only the development of magical devices, but also around perfecting their capacity for reasoning and data gathering.

                    EDIT: Also, is there a Legacy whose members embody the Jungian Archetype of the Trickster in some way?
                    Last edited by GibberingEloquence; 12-11-2016, 08:26 PM.


                    Let Him Speak.

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                    • Theoretically a lot of legacies can handle the "employs scientific methods" theme since it's pretty vague. Threnodists, Crypotologos, Reality Stalkers, Forge Masters, Transhuman Engineers, and Sphinxes, etc.

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                      • Here are some ideas for a Trickster Legacy. If anyone is interested in a full write up, please tell me.

                        Celebrants Of The Torn Facade

                        Origins
                        Parentage:
                        Acanthus
                        Nicknames: Jesters, Meddlers (Derogatory)
                        Background: Most Celebrants have ties to movements in favor of free speech and civil rights. They can also be journalists and artists of various types who use their way with words to bridge the gap between common men and those who think of themselves as gods of Olympus.

                        Doctrine
                        Prerequisites:
                        Mind 2, Expression 2 and one of the following at 2: Politics, Investigation, Persuasion or Subterfuge
                        Initiation: The aspiring Celebrant must trick a leading figure of the Consilium into exposing their own foolishness and mistakes they’d rather hide. Bonus points if they admit it and try fix these issues.
                        Theory: Everyone Wears Masks, and perfection is the most ridiculous mask of them all. There is no use in being Awakened if you keep telling yourself lies about how superior and above misfortune you are. To prevent their fellow mages from becoming too serious and full of themselves, the Celebrants become satirists and practical jokers.

                        Magic
                        Ruling Arcanum: Mind
                        Yantras: Symbols of mythological tricksters such as Coyote, Loki and Hermes (+1 or +2 if clearly visible), taboo-breaking fashion choices (+2), wisecracking (+1), mocking or destroying a representation of a scorned authority figure (+1 for a handheld representation or +2 for a detailed, life sized one), hidden compartments (+1), disguises (+1 if basic or +2 if complex)
                        Oblations: Pulling pranks, giving satirical performances, making oneself the comic relief, teaching unorthodox lessons


                        Let Him Speak.

                        Comment


                        • I've created a couple so far:

                          The Strangers
                          Mastigos Arrow/Guardians Fate Legacy about limiting and cultivating one's sympathetic connections, believing that sympathies have been at least partially influenced by Fate, and entwining the two a Mage can take personal responsibility for their own Destiny. Powers mostly relate to using Fate magic to shape what's in store for them, rather than simple manipulations of Luck.

                          The Sistershood of Hope
                          Obrimos Ladder Fate Legacy, somewhat made in jest. "Magical Girl" Legacy about trying to find the "Fate beyond Fate", seeing what Magic can manipulate as nothing more than subtle influences named "Fate" in some grand display of Ego. TRUE Fate is found in the Supernal and its will. Manifestations of Supernal power independant of an individual's will are messages from that realm itself, which the Sisterhood try to find, to interpret the will of that realm, and find their way home. Somewhat out of keeping with many more staunchly independant and self-assured Obrimos, however in truth each Sister is self-directed and few interpret each discovered omen the same way.

                          The Broken Men/The Burning Men
                          Thyrsus Arrow Forces Legacy about finding solace from mental trauma in primal emotions, then channeling those emotions into manifestations of power. Created with a PC in my last game, for his 1860's war veteran character who realised the juncture after he entered an emanation relam near identical to the Supernal Realm which he awakened in. In modern times, it's derided as a Legacy that focuses on being unable to let go for the past and which relishes in an inability to seek mental health assistance. But for the time, it's quite apt.
                          Last edited by HerbertIsBestBert; 12-13-2016, 04:13 AM. Reason: Accidentally posted early

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                          • Legacy: The Goetic Road


                            When I’m building Legacies, I generally get really absorbed in the esoteric or philosophical parts of the idea. I then spend more than a few weeks wrestling with making the mechanics and philosophies meet in the middle. This particular legacy was an idea that began as a joke and after reading the setting for Los Angeles in the core 2e book really took off in my mind.

                            The entire attainment line is based on a home-brew thought of connecting the mage’s soul to a Temenos realm, that winds up allowing their Attainments to do things that might not be considered conventional. I wind up abusing the “Many Roads” and “Strange Attainments” sidebars from start to finish, in an attempt to both keep the attainments as valid extrapolations from the legacy’s practices/philosophies AND keep the legacy’s attainments useful and fun.

                            My goal is to, with these considerations in mind, attempt a legacy that is as close to canonically viable as possible, while avoiding game-breaking imbalances where I deviate from those guidelines. I’m still working on it.


                            Creation is Magical; Passion is Power

                            The Goetic Road (or “Skinwalkers” as they are known to the Awakened) embrace the truth behind the Libertine belief that Humanity is Magical. They grasp it more intimately than other mages do: They wear Humanity’s thoughts and dreams like a totemic shaman wears an animal’s skin, evoking the essence of sleeper belief through the metaphorical song-and-dance of playing the part.

                            By forging a connection between their soul and the Temenotic Realm appropriate to their Focus, and invoking that reality within this one, these mages manage to integrate themselves and their magic into the fringes of Sleeper societies and subcultures, not just bypassing the Curse and breathing life into the fight against the Lie - but using the Lie against itself.

                            Sleepers live, bound by the Lie. While they do, they also dream, hope, envision, explore and create -- they invent gods, stories, mythologies, they reach for the heavens and believe. As if in response to their oppressed, mundane existences, they immerse themselves and fascinate themselves with their creations. Skinwalkers form their magic from those Sleeper thoughts and passions. Sleepers envision the magic for the Skinwalkers; the those on Goetic Road just harness it.

                            They blur the lines between the Truth and the Lie from both sides.


                            Origins

                            Parentage: Mastigos,Free Council

                            Background: Many Skinwalkers hail from backgrounds of fanatic devotion, mortal occultism, piousness or devout fandom. Most of them relied heavily on their Focus for personal stability before Awakening; and find that incorporating their past selves into their Magic is more fulfilling than obstructing. All enter the Legacy drenched in a fascination with the magic inherent in humanity, and an appreciation for story, art, creation and imagination.


                            Doctrine

                            Prerequisites: Mind 2, Occult 2, and one of the following additional Skills at 2 dots or higher, as appropriate to their Focus: Expression, Socialize, Academics.

                            Organization: Skinwalkers don’t really organize among themselves; though they occasionally form groups of similarly-Focused mages that loosely operate together or form cabals. Skinwalkers don’t really view themselves as a group, or an organization. To them, it’s just a practice of magic in and of itself, and individual practitioners owe nothing to one another beyond, perhaps, the norms between mentor and student.

                            Theory: The Skinwalkers believe that humanity’s mythological creations bear magical truth. Progress toward enlightenment requires creative thought; the mage who bears this Legacy channels the creations of mortals to learn and command Supernal Truths.

                            To do so, the mages a of The Goetic Road forge a special connection between a particular Astral Realm and their soul -- their namesake -- and uses it to begin the cycle of creation and empowerment, from sleeper to mage to sleeper again.


                            Magic

                            Ruling Arcana: Mind

                            Yantras: Quotes from the writings of the Focus (+1), Succeeding on an Expression roll for reenactment of scenes or stories from the focus (+2), verbally explaining the deeper meaning of an element of the Focus to a Dreamer (+1), collecting artwork or scriptures or fanfiction relevant to the Focus and the Spell [Note, this Yantra is the act of the Collection, and separate from anything collected] (+2), fanfiction or artwork (+1)

                            Oblations: Studying the mage’s Focus such as pouring over appropriate religious scriptures and attending appropriate Churches or binge-watching an appropriate show on the internet, attending conventions for their chosen Fandom such as church or gaming cons, artistic expressions within their chosen Focus such as biblical essays or fanfiction, pursuing an obsessive or otherwise unbalanced indulgence in the Focus, discussing the deeper themes and meanings of their Focus with other believers/fans.

                            Jargon: The mage’s Focus is the theme of sleeper culture that the Mage dedicates themselves to: Something like a specific religion, mythology, or fictional universe. They may practice Skinwalking with Catholicism, the Harry Potter universe, greek mythology, or conspiracy theorists. The Mage’s Goetic Road leads from the astral realm of their Focus to their own soul.

                            Dreamers are people who are dedicated to that Focus: devout believers or priests, professors of mythology, the fandom community for a show or book series, the author or actors, etc.

                            Mantles are the characters, locations and objects prominent in the Mage’s focus. The Mantle must be either recurring, named, or otherwise significant in the narrative: Unimportant or one-off characters are not Mantles. (However, if the ST approves, tropes within a fandom or religion that are common or memetic might be valid: a Star Trek focused mage could treat “red shirt” as a mantle.)

                            Vessels are people, places or things that share traits in common with Mantles from the mage’s Focus: A detective might be a Vessel for sherlock holmes. A hippie might be appropriate for Jesus Christ. A motorcycle may be appropriate for Ghost Rider’s bicycle. A bible may be appropriate for the Ten Commandment Tablets. How appropriate a Vessel is is ultimately up to the ST: A model of a specific object should be appropriate; but so should something that is of the same “type” of object or person or place.


                            Attainments

                            1: Remember When (Gnosis 2, Mind 1, Compelling. 1 Reach: Instant action. Limitation: Subjects. Benefit: ?)
                            This Attainment is the first blurring of the lines between sleeper fiction or mythology and the Fallen World by making characters and stories play out through vessels in the world around them.

                            The mage calls a Mantle down their Goetic Road and projects it onto a Vessel; causing the Vessel to take a single action appropriate to the Mantle. This has effects similar to Coaxing the Spirits, but can be applied to sentient Vessels or appropriate locations as well.

                            The actions taken must be appropriate to the original narrative of Mantle (which must in turn be appropriate to the Vessel). This means modeling events frequently enacted by the Mantle or significant events in the Mantle’s story. For instance, a Vessel for a character who is characterized as food-loving and always hungry may be made to eat something. If that Mantle is not characterized as food-loving and hungry, though, the Mage may not force this action.

                            2: Influence (Gnosis 2, Mind 2, Ruling. 1 Reach: Duration. Limitation: Subjects. Benefit: ?)
                            The Mage may act as if they have Status dots equal to Mind in a Focus-relevant organization, when playing the part of activities relevant to their focus (an act that takes at least one scene to accomplish.) This Status does not function against non-Dreamers. If their focus is Catholicism; then they gain this whenever they make efforts to representing a priest, or angel, to members of a church. This Status only functions with appropriate Dreamers and/or Vessels.

                            3: Community (Gnosis 4, Mind 3. Reach: Instant Action. Limitation: Subjects. Benefit: ?)
                            The Mage may tap into a Dreamer’s connection to the Astral Realm of their Focus; allowing them to ignore the Curse on a number of Dreamers equal to their Gnosis at once. The Mage may only make use of this Attainment for spells that are appropriate to their Focus; such as prophecy or biblical miracles for a Catholic-themed mage. This Attainment mimics the effects of Stealing the Fire; however the Dreamer does not suffer delayed reactions; they simply don’t suffer reactions at all.

                            4: Dream Come True (Gnosis 6, Mind 4, Reach: Duration. Limitation: Subjects. Benefit: Instant Action.)
                            When a Mage is in desperate need of an object, location or entity from their mythology of choice, this attainment allows them to call it down from the Astral and project it onto an appropriate physical vessel in the fallen world. For instance, the mantle of the Spear of Destiny can be cast upon a mundane Spear, the Arc of the Covenant can be cast into an appropriately revered or structured box. A preacher may be given the mantle of a Saint appropriate to his Virtue, his relationships, or his position in the church. A malicious mage may cast the Salem Court over a courtroom or town hall.

                            The Mantle that is brought down onto the Vessel will embody itself in a narrative sense, not just in their actions and thoughts. Vessels bearing Mantles will play out the Mantle’s story in subtle (and ultimately profound) ways; adjusted for the reality they find themselves in. Two subjects bearing the mantles of Cain and Abel will, over time, find a reason to murder each other if left to their own devices, for example. A vessel wearing Joan of Arc will eventually burn at the stake.

                            The Mantle is a goetia of rank equal to ½ the Mage’s dots in Mind, rounded up. The Mantle always has a ban of “The Mantle will suffer the narratively significant fates suffered by that which it represents within the Focus as soon as those fates become an option. The Mantle of Judas will be talked into betraying his best friend, the mantle of the Titanic will sink.”

                            The Mage may spend a point of mana for a Vessel to ‘black out’ for the duration of the Mantle’s ride.

                            The Vessel is granted the following condition:

                            Condition: Mantle-Ridden
                            The object, living being, or location is possessed by a goetic entity called the Mantle. The Mantle may use its Influences and Numena while controlling the Vessel. It is not safe from Essence Bleed.

                            The Entity may pay one Essence to empower any action it takes such that it gains an Exceptional Success on 3 successes rather than 5, so long as that action is a close enough approximation of an important success for the Mantle in it’s original narrative. The Mantle of Sampson may Empower an action to kill a lion with it’s vessel’s bare hands, the mantle of Delilah may be empowered to ease a warrior’s distrust.

                            Mantles possessing Vessels have a great deal of control over their hosts. A Mantle controlling a Vessel can’t make it do anything the Vessel isn’t physically capable of doing, but it can turn switches on and off, fully control the body of a living being, open doors within its location’s boundaries, etc.

                            Use the Mantle’s attributes for mental actions (or physical actions where a Vessel does not have appropriate attributes, such as when possessing a car or a creepy basement), and the Vessel’s physical attributes where appropriate. For a point of Essence, the Mantle may read the Vessel’s mind.

                            To ride a Vessel, a Mantle must stay imposed over the Vessel in twilight. This means that if the host touches the Mantle’s Bane or is injured by a weapon made of the bane, the Vessel will suffer wounds to its Corpus.

                            Resolution: Any method by which a person might be exorcised of a possessing Entity will work to remove the Mantle from the Subject.
                            Beat: N/A

                            5: Fan Theories (Gnosis 8, Mind 5)
                            This Attainment represents ultimate mastery of the Goetic Road between the mage’s soul and the Astral Realms of their focus; and ultimately allows the Mage to begin to tinker with the details of their Focus.

                            Once the mage has successfully mediated to enter the Astral (or used any other method to accomplish Astral Travel), their travel abilities are drastically improved due to the strength of the connection their soul has to the Temenos Realm of their Focus, and the sympathies that they share with Dreamers.

                            They may opt to arrive in the Astral not in their own Oneiros, but the Temenos Realm of their Focus; and from here the Mage may open Irises (Keyed in a fashion appropriate to the mage’s Focus, and of the Mage’s design) between their Temenos realm, their own personal Oneiros, and/or the Oneiros of any Dreamer appropriate to their Focus. These Irises always open to the astral realm of the mage’s Focus within the appropriate mindscape, and the Mage may choose to Key the Irises in a fashion appropriate to their Focus.

                            The mage could, for instance, meditate to enter the Astral and arrive in the Temenos Realm of Catholicism. He could then open an Iris to the Oneiros of a local priest, pious believer, or theologist; and choose to key the Iris to a rosary or saying three Hail Maries.

                            From this vantage, the Mage is equipped to begin enacting heavy-duty influence over his Focus. Many Skinwalkers theorize that as the Mage gains the power to influence the thoughts of Dreamers to influence the Astral Realm of their Focus; as well as influencing the Astral Realm to change the thoughts of Dreamers, they can combine trickle-down changes with trickle-up changes in order to heavily shape the Sleeper’s creations and beliefs; in turn shaping that magic which they create and ultimately growing their Goetic Road to encompass anything they desire -- a potential, if very hubris-ridden and long-running, path to Ascension.
                            Last edited by EvilSqueegee; 12-13-2016, 01:10 PM.


                            Storytelling is the art of pretending you totally meant for that to happen just now.

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                            • Originally posted by Thorbes View Post
                              Body Thiefs: Seer Legacy asociated with the Prelates of the Unity that achieve a sort of inmortality by living inside the bodies of slepers.
                              Pleeeeeeeease, pretty please post these.


                              Homebrews:
                              Vampire Bloodlines: Abhartach, Kiasyd
                              Ordo Dracul Coils: Hunger, Primal Blood
                              Mage Legacies: Infernal Ones, Daoine

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                              • Man, its been a while since those. Well, I could try, but their mechanics worked due to the old Prelacy rules.


                                I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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