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Stop-gap God-Machine mechanics for Mage

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  • #16
    Having a hallow or higher prime doesn't suddenly make mana no longer a problem. Lots of spells have inherent mana costs as it is, and the extra mana for improvised casting is on top of any other costs. Max mana isn't so high that you can cast more than a handful of 2 mana spells out in the field, and any alternatives do eat into finite resources or involve questionable practices. At most you're expanding the size of your mana pool, but you can't expand it by that much, and you drain twice as fast.

    Having something like counterspell prime as a rote, if you're not an obrimos, lets you cast it twice as often before having to refill. That can be the difference between life and death in a magical conflict. And all for one XP.

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    • #17
      And that's cool, but only solves the problem for 1 specific spell. And that maybe true for Hallows or Prime, but tnot for a Familiar, a Legacy or an Artifact. A Legacy is like a portable, one use per day, unlimited Hallow. You perform the Oblation once a day and get a Mana per each success, without cap. Hallows at best give 5 Mana a day, Legacy Oblations don't have that problem. NOw Familiars and Artifacts not only expand yor Mana Pool as you said, they also regenerate said Mana (Artifacts on its own and fairly quickly, Familiars can be more or less easy to feed).

      Also,spells that have innate Mana costs (other than the 1 Mana for Improvising non-Ruling spells) are very few, specailly in some Arcana,like Mind. Those that have an innate cost higher than 1 Mana are very, very rare. So, that's not gonna be an issue most of the time.


      I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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      • #18
        Counterspell prime was the most obvious example, but hardly the only.

        Oblations are limited in their usefulness, because you need a scene to trigger them, and that makes them not particularly helpful when you need to be casting a bunch of spells *right now*. Same thing, but a bit worse, with artifact and familiar recharging; if you're using non-ruling arcana spells regularly, they will not keep pace with use. It lets you manage mana in the medium to long, but not the short, term. Not counting artifacts and familiars, you can at most attempt (failure drains you just as fast as success) to cast 14 non-ruling spells at Gnosis 5, 11 at 1, and half that if the spell has an intrinsic mana cost, and even fewer if you need to mitigate paradox, cast sympathetically, up the damage of damage spells, heal, etc etc. And that's assuming you're topped off and haven't been spending faster than you can regain, something that should only happen in absence of dramatic tension. That's not a lot of spells. I'm not sure what your play experience is, but I can easily go through most of that in a single scene in terms of total spells cast, if it's a busy scene. And I may not get an opportunity for enough downtime to recharge for multiple scenes.

        I don't run out of mana from this of course, because most of those spells will be of my ruling Arcana; players still aren't that incentivized to get rotes, even with that, not because they can manage their mana well enough to cast non-ruling arcana spells a bunch - they shouldn't be able to anytime there's pressure from events - but because it's relatively easy not to use non-ruling arcana spells in the first place if you've got a decently sized player group. Rotes as they exist currently are relegated to limited violation of niche protection. It's a good part of the rote system, even if it's too narrow of a role for it; you won't have an Acanthus with some points in Death running around outshining the Moros - he will run out of mana super fast if he tries - but he can have a few Death based tricks that he's able to use very frequently. Animate Shadows can be used over and over again in a scene to help with stealth and intimidation rolls in a way that would risk leaving you low on mana that you may need later on otherwise. You can use Turn Projectile every time someone fires at you without being drained really fast in an extended firefight. You can keep throwing up lucky coin. And so on.

        So to be clear, I'm not saying rotes are okay as they are, they aren't. But the way that they interact with the mana cost for improvised spells is *very* good, and some way of maintaining limited violation of niche protection on Arcana is important for the new system to do.

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        • #19
          So I'm looking a the Mage Armor rules and I'm curious how the second value after the slash should scale up past 5, just for reference purposes.


          Revlid wrote:
          Yes, hollowing out your humanity to become an utterly utilitarian asura is the exact suggestion I would expect from you, Aiden.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aiden View Post
            So I'm looking a the Mage Armor rules and I'm curious how the second value after the slash should scale up past 5, just for reference purposes.
            Maybe Archmastery?

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            • #21
              ... I'm not sure how what you just said is a coherent answer to my question.


              Revlid wrote:
              Yes, hollowing out your humanity to become an utterly utilitarian asura is the exact suggestion I would expect from you, Aiden.

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              • #22
                I'd suggest it to become a 3. At 7 it's a 4, at 8 it's a 4. At 9 a 5.

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                • #23
                  I'm curious about obsessions:

                  Do I get an arcane beat each time I complete my obsession or each time I get closer to completing it (and: do I get a beat after completing it, anyway?)

                  Also: does "forging weapons made out of prime" count as an aspiration or an obsession?


                  Historian ~ www.cronistasdastrevasbr.com

                  I currently ST a... MtAW 2e campaign called "Axis Mundi - Si Vis Pacem"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                    Mage Armor

                    Mage armor spells differ depending on if they protect against Grappling or not. Grappling-defending armors work by supernally dodging attacks (one's even called Supernal Dodge). Armors that don't work against Grappling work by absorbing damage. GMC now handles the two sorts of armor differently, so;

                    Grapple-applicable Mage Armor

                    Arcanum Dots
                    2 - +2 Defense
                    3 - +3 Defense
                    4 - +4 Defense
                    5 - +5 Defense

                    Grapple-vulnerable Mage Armor

                    Arcanum Dots
                    2 - 2/0 Armor
                    3 - 3/1 Armor
                    4 - 4/2 Armor
                    5 - 5/2 Armor

                    Mage armor doesn't penalise Speed or Defense, and stacks with mundane Armor. Armor Piercing goes through it as normal, but defense-boosts *do* apply against firearms. The two kinds of Mage Armor don't stack.

                    I went for "keeping the defense-boosting armors as good as they were, and increasing the effectiveness of those that actually are Armoring". From what I've seen, though, almost everyone has an alternate take on Mage Armors. If we do get a Chronicle Book, this will be a hot topic.
                    I run now Mage game with GMC update and here are my concersc - how would you see those Armors working in fight? For exmmple Death's 2 Entropic Guard get's you 2/0 Armor or +2 Defence? How would they relate in unarmed combat? How now Firearms would work with them? Those are real questions I got on my session in last hour. Need rather simple clarification on this.


                    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                      I run now Mage game with GMC update and here are my concersc - how would you see those Armors working in fight? For exmmple Death's 2 Entropic Guard get's you 2/0 Armor or +2 Defence? How would they relate in unarmed combat? How now Firearms would work with them? Those are real questions I got on my session in last hour. Need rather simple clarification on this.
                      You need clarifications of "grapple-applicable Mage Armor (which Entropic Guard is not) gives you bonus Defense that also applies against Firearms" and "grapple-vulnerable Mage Armor (which Entropic Guard is) gives you Armor that has a ballistics rating that applies against Firearms"?


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                      • #26
                        Rather simple list what are grapple-applicable Mage Armors and grapple-vulnerable ones. Also, what happes when characters are fighting in close combat with them - unarmed and with wepons. I must still said that after all this years I just saw Mage Armors working diffrently for diffrent Arcana and it was partially confusing.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-16-2013, 12:44 AM.


                        My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                        LGBT+ through Ages
                        LGBT+ in CoD games

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                        • #27
                          Fortune's Protection, Misperception, Untouchable, and Temporal Dodge are the grapple-applicable Mage Armor spells; Entropic Guard, Unseen Shield, Organic Resilience, Unseen Aegis, and Ephemeral Shield are grapple-vulnerable. It says in the description for each one.

                          Being that Firearms attacks and ballistic Armor ratings are the only wrinkles in terms of how Armor interacts with regular attacks, I don't understand your second issue.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 12-16-2013, 12:49 AM.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                            Being that Firearms attacks and ballistic Armor ratings are the only wrinkles in terms of how Armor interacts with regular attacks, I don't understand your second issue.
                            And I don't understand what you wrote...


                            My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                            LGBT+ through Ages
                            LGBT+ in CoD games

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                              And I don't understand what you wrote...
                              Close combat interacts with Mage Armor like it does with regular Armor and Defense and I'm not sure how else it would be expected to work.


                              Resident Lore-Hound
                              Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                                I run now Mage game with GMC update and here are my concersc - how would you see those Armors working in fight? For exmmple Death's 2 Entropic Guard get's you 2/0 Armor or +2 Defence? How would they relate in unarmed combat? How now Firearms would work with them? Those are real questions I got on my session in last hour. Need rather simple clarification on this.
                                In the standard mage core rules, there are two types of mage armor. One of them provides defense against attempts to start a grapple, and the other provides defense against overpower maneuvers once you're already in a grapple. This is written in the descriptions for each mage armor.

                                In GMC rules, the mage armors which used to protect you from grapple attempts, now provide Defense against all attacks, including firearms. In other words, these mage armors are unchanged, and they work exactly the same as they used to.

                                Mage armors which used to protect you from overpower maneuvers, however, now provide armor instead.
                                Last edited by Strill; 12-16-2013, 08:53 PM.

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