2e Mage: Why should I buy/play it?

[dman1123]

I'm having some trouble convincing my group at home to buy or play any nWoD games, specifically Mage. As I'm getting them around to it, GMC comes out and that's another whole debate. Now, the full on 2e mage is coming out. What are some ways to convince players to play it? I'm convinced, because I love the Mage line. How do I convince someone less sold on the line?

[Satchel]

No more speedbumps in Forces, Matter, and Life, a ritual casting system that doesn't break the game, massively reduced emphasis on Atlantis as a focused setting conceit, expanded magical tool rules that encourage the use of symbolic objects and real-estate (along with Legacies and sacraments), more flexible rules for Paradox, stronger guidelines for Mage Sight, a view of the Supernal that's less "walled-off otherworld"…

There's a bunch of other stuff that came out during the Open Dev stretch, but that's a pretty extensive sampler on its own.

[Ashenrogue]

Describe and give examples of Creative Thaumaturgy. When I was just getting started that's all it took for me to become interested. I had previously dealt with the annoyingly restrictive magic system of D&D 3.5, as well as a few other equally restrictive magic systems, and the idea of a game that had rules flexible enough to be used for making up any and all effects that fell under such broad spectrums of power was infinitely appealing.

[Gaius]

I'm having some trouble convincing my group at home to buy or play any nWoD games, specifically Mage. As I'm getting them around to it, GMC comes out and that's another whole debate. Now, the full on 2e mage is coming out. What are some ways to convince players to play it? I'm convinced, because I love the Mage line. How do I convince someone less sold on the line?

Having not read anything of Mage myself,* I obviously can't offer a specific sales pitch. But I have seen quite a few topics like this for other lines. I think there's a helpful question you can answer for those more Mage-knowledgeable than myself: what are some of the difficulties your group is having? Giving people a better idea of those can help tighten the focus on what's likely to help your players see the appeal of Mage.

* Aside those open development blurbs, at least. I've always been loosely interested, but I may actually seek out something to read soon. Given the timing, I expect I'll just wait for 2e.

[Taldorblackfire]

For me, I like Mage the Awakening 1st edition for the reasons stated above by Ashenrogue. I actually laughed at my friend for playing a storyteller system since I was use to D&D 3.0, AD&D, and pretty similar games that were all about adding the bonuses to your die to make the best character you could make. However, he finally tricked me into playing and I never thanked him enough.

So, this influences my desire for 2nd Edition. If you read some of the posts by Dave Brookshaw here: http://theonyxpath.com/author/dbrookshaw/

Based on these changes I have become genuinely interested in 2nd Edition because it seems to address the problems I saw with 1st Edition regarding Mage Sight, Reach with magic, the good ol' Covert and Vulgar Aspect debate, and some of the spells seem to indicate some really cool stuff and I am also very curious to see the applications of them in the new edition. I also like the expansion of the other realms as well to make them more defined and Supernatural Verges are cool as well. So, basically I like all the cool things they are adding.

Now, I admit, I have some dislikes as well: The XP System in GMC is something that I feel is more trouble than its worth, tracking beats just gets annoying to me and makes me do more bookkeeping than I am currently doing, but luckily that is an optional system since no one is watching how I do things. The combat mechanics I have a hate/love relationship: In one sense I like the fact you have to be creative in combat, but constantly being creative in combat is also a bore. Constantly using Willpower to one-up your opponent to get an extra die added to your attack so that you can hit your opponent or aiming for their arm every time seems to distract from the flow of combat. I like the more cinematic combat where if someone is really tearing you up with that gun then take that penalty to take out their arm, instead of instantly going into combat you need to take that guy's arm out so you got a good chance of winning. However, there is no perfect combat system and that is something I have accepted and you just alter it as needed to suit the play style of everyone involved.

[atamajakki]

Down & Dirty Spellcasting will either make me buy this game or write off MtAw for good. I'm a little bummed that we didn't get to see it in the Open Development.

[wyrdhamster]

Setting changes are also need to be marked - Free Council become not 5th Order but rather 3rd Sect of Mage world - with Diamond and Seers as other two. There are also changes to Paths, to be more open and balanced, with opening their Tarot Archetypes - and greed Obrimos get's three (!) of them. Removing Atlantis as consistent myth, and making it more a "often hypothesis" makes archeomancy of Times Before really interesting.

And dedicating whole Consillium system to the governing local One Big Mystery is interesting - even if it could make some problems if you do not have idea on to what makes this Mystery. For example, I would love to run someday mine home city of Lublin game - but with about 350 000 populace I think only about 40-50 Awakened in city would be sense logical. Still, the problem is that our story of Devil's Paw do not sens as enough big and interesting Mystery to makes this base on new Consillium system. But on general, changes to Consillium government are sound.

[ArcaneArts]

In a nutshell, the second edition is pioneered by an intelligent and discerning fan of the games who has crafted it into a story that really allows you to drag the heavens down to earth and pay for your hubris in kind. The setting material is sharp and evocative while the mechanics are streamlined and empowered. You will feel like a Mage while still defining the icon personally through an expansive system of props and styles that allow you to custom tailor the imago of your character.

You will make creation weep fractal tears of blood with your every step, if you do not break yourself first.

[proindrakenzol]

In a nutshell, the second edition is pioneered by an intelligent and discerning fan of the games who has crafted it into a story that really allows you to drag the heavens down to earth and pay for your hubris in kind. The setting material is sharp and evocative while the mechanics streamlined and empowered. You will feel like a Mage while still defining the icon personally through an expansive system of props and styles that allow you to custom tailor the imago of your character.

You will make creation weep fractal tears of blood with your every step, if you do not break yourself first.

Fractal tears - exactly as delicious in any quantity!

[MCN]

Why ever get any new edition of any game?

1) Streamlined rules and setting. New editions tend to fix the issues the older editions suffered from. And, yes, 1e magic rules had a LOT of issues. The massive errata only touches on a handful of the problems with casting magic. Also, 1e had multi-attack Fighting Styles, which were horribly broken.

2) Easier entry point. Old editions tend to have a lot of weight that builds up, supplement after supplement. This is a chance to start everything with a mostly clean slate. So, its just easier for new players to start with something new. It also helps create a level playing field if you happen to have anyone more familiar with the older edition than a new player, especially since the older books actually do change the setting to a great amount from the core.

3) Up to date references. Technology, cultural paradigms, and the like shift with time. Old editions are obviously going to make dated references. Even mechanics and how players want to interact with them shift with time.

4) Support new material coming out. You can always buy backwards as you need inspiration (if necessary), but buying new material supports the creation and growth of the setting going forwards. New material is the lifeblood of any game. In my personal experience, most people tend to be more excited about a game as new material is still being published for it. Less so in an edition that has finished its run.

5) This one is unique to the nWoD lines, but the early books (vamp, wolf, mage) suffered heavily from being tied to their cWoD counterparts. The new lines shed that uncomfortable association and stand on their own. I'm especially glad that Awakening is moving more away from the whole "war over who controls reality" feeling from the Ascension game line (Pentacle v. Seers reeked of it), and more towards the study of magical mysteries.

[dman1123]

I was planning on buying it before... Now, I'm planning on buying it as soon as it comes out. These are great reasons and I'll present them to my players.

[Isator Levi]

the second edition is pioneered by an intelligent and discerning fan of the games who has crafted it into a story that really allows you to drag the heavens down to earth and pay for your hubris in kind.

Backed up by one of the finest old hands in the White Wolf rogue's gallery, no less.

[JackalopeVegas]

Given from what I read so far on this Forum, I got the feeling that instead of delving away from Ascension, that Awakening is an Earth 2 version of Ascension. It could be argued that the Supernal Realms were a discovered part of the Twilight (Umbra in cWoD). The Free Council is a version of the Society of Ether and the Virtual Adepts who abandoned the Technocracy (Seers in nWoD) and decided that the Traditions were too elitist for their tastes. And what is an Avatar, but a Supernal creature, from a Supernal Verge, who has taken an interest in a Mage's magical development. What clinches this theory is the removal of Atlantis, which was not in Ascension. It may not be exact, but it's the impression that I got.

[Thorbes]

Well, except that the Supernal Realms are not a place, nor an otherworld, but sets of related underlaying concepts and truths of the world. It's like saying you can travel to Chemistry or Physics as if you could actually walk to them and live there.

And that the Free Council are more like the whole of the Traditions than anything resembling the Technocracy (you are more likely to find an honest to god Hermetic mage or Shaman in the Free Council than in any other Order).

And mages may attract the attention of supernal creatures, yes, but don't need them to perform magic.

I mean, you can present the Awakening setting as an alternate Ascension (or a post-Ascension. Plenty of people have done that, though none seem to agree on which paradigm's group won, I've seen anything from Hollow Ones to Virtual Adepts) but you would have to change what this things actually are as presented for it to fit.

[Synapse]

Awakening's too different from ascension in those details for you to draw parallels of the institutions... And why was it mentioned? O.o 2e mage is not Awakening to Ascension. It's Awakening 2 to Awakening 1. Ascension's an entirely different beast.