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Exarchs as nonhumans

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  • Exarchs as nonhumans

    How much it would change the setting, if the Exarchs have no human origin?

  • #2
    It wouldn't change a thing really.

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    • #3
      I'd second Mrmdubois. The identity of the Exarchs is pretty much entirely speculation.


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      • #4
        Not at all. The Exarchs are a fact of the setting - the Supernal Realms contain all Symbols, after all, and the Exarchs are the Symbols of tyranny (the General isn't just some cosmic monster, she's the symbol of violence-as-a-means-of-subjucation.) Supernal entities will talk about them. Ochemata manifest - rarely enough that they're legends to most mages, but they do.

        That the Exarchs were once human mages who Ascended; that's the part that's mere conjecture, driven among the Pentacle mostly because the Seers of the Throne believe it. The Seers believe it mostly because that way there's a chance they can be Exarchs, too.


        Dave Brookshaw

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        • #5
          Yeah there's about as much evidence either way, as far as I can tell (that is, there's fuck all actual concrete evidence either).

          Personally I like Atlantis from an aesthetic point of view, but whether that legend is true or not is anyone's guess.

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          • #6
            So they could be anything, from great old ones to inferno demons?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Draven023 View Post
              So they could be anything, from great old ones to inferno demons?
              Well, what they are is sentient symbols. They could have been humans, or great old ones, or infernal demons, or whatever else, in a version of the universe that was erased from existance as a result of their ascension and therefore never actually happened. But unless your characters are capable of operating on that meta-time, meta-universe scale, what they used to be (or more accurately, what they never were) doesn't actually have a whole lot of impact on the game.


              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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              • #8
                Well, whatever they were, certainly now they're Supernal symbols of tyranny that send embodiments of themselves down to the Fallen world to conduct business on their behalf, and also are served both directly and indirectly by a large and powerful organisation of Mages and their associates.

                Their origins are definitely up for question, but any Mage detect the presence of the Exarchs throughout reality without looking very hard. They know the Exarchs are there, you can see their symbols on bank notes and corporate designs and in the manifestos of extremist terrorists. Exarchs are a very real part of Mage cosmology, they're a core component of the Lie.

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                • #9
                  They should always be things that stay on point as the cosmic overlords of concepts of tyranny and oppression, I think.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Draven023 View Post
                    So they could be anything, from great old ones to inferno demons?
                    Great old ones and inferno demons also exist, too...

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                    • #11
                      Exiled Arch-angels.

                      I will never let this lame crossover idea go.

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                      • #12
                        If the Exarchs never were human, then what they'd be are Persona 3+4 endpoint villians. Tyrannical uber-gods that amplify and reflect our very worst natures against us because we empowered them to do so in the first place. How this managed to break the universe so badly is an interesting piece of trivia that is unprovable and nigh-irrelevant unless you're an Invisible Master who can actually make use and sort-of verify that information to further your Ascension.

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                        • #13
                          Here's a theory I've been juggling for a while.

                          What if the Exarchs were actually the Ascended Dragons, the ones that came before the Atlanteans? They left behind their legacy for the Atlanteans to find, but when the Atlanteans pulled the Celestial Ladder stunt and shattered the world, the Dragons realised that even though they are Ascended, they still must protect the world, which has now Fallen.
                          When they saw that the Celestial Ladder was the result of Atlantean Hubris, the Dragons decided that in order to prevent a second Ladder incident, they must crack down on Hubris with any means necessary.

                          And so the Dragons took on the Supernal Symbols of Tyranny and proclaimed themselves as the Exarchs, to guide Humans away from the Supernal so that they would not repeat the Atlanteans' mistake.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                            It wouldn't change a thing really.
                            Exactly this. Hell, we can't prove (IC) that they exist and we can't prove that they were ever people now. If they were just very powerful supernal concepts, nothing changes one iota.

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                            • #15
                              Well, you can probably prove they exist in 2e. You just couldn't prove much else about them.


                              Revlid wrote:
                              Yes, hollowing out your humanity to become an utterly utilitarian asura is the exact suggestion I would expect from you, Aiden.

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