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  • #16
    Building off Isator Levi, I've always thought the idea of a smart spell was always edging too close to Dynamics.

    That being said, you can probably still create amulets that exempt the bearer from the effects of your spells and the like.

    Plus, I really do like the option to exempt yourself from someone else's spell instead of just counterspelling, or to hang an enemies magic until you're done studying it and can dispel it safely.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
      I think the thing with targeted exemption is that it contributes back to that whole thesis of magic as something you have to take responsibility for. Using an extreme example, you can't just throw around explosions and will them to not harm any innocent bystanders; you either don't use the spell because the collateral damage is unacceptable, you take a very calculated risk or try to measure up whether the benefits outweigh the costs (which might better preserve Wisdom, although may also damage relations with other mages), or you just don't care (and thus jeopardize Wisdom)..
      I honestly don't care that much about that function of Target Exemption, personally. It's the other function, the one that lets you use the regular spell control rules to exempt classes of targets instead of specific targets that I found to be the most useful.

      It required setup, unlike the function to exclude individual targets from your area attacks, which I think also emphasizes nu-Wisdom.

      Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
      Building off Isator Levi, I've always thought the idea of a smart spell was always edging too close to Dynamics..
      I've been using the smart target exemption since before Imperial Mysteries, so this doesn't make me feel any better. The way I described Dynamics is spells that are actually sentient and can respond to new stimuli, not just a preprogrammed exemption like pre-Arch Fate.


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      • #18
        The problem is that in order to exclude a particular class of people a spell needs to look at them and make a decision. That requires responding to stimuli. It's totally dynamics. Pre-archmastery a mage needs to tell the spell exactly what to do.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Elfive View Post
          The problem is that in order to exclude a particular class of people a spell needs to look at them and make a decision. That requires responding to stimuli. It's totally dynamics. Pre-archmastery a mage needs to tell the spell exactly what to do.
          I get the logic, but it's not the only interpretation, I think my interpretation works as well. I've just always had smarter spells be part of Fate's niche and I like it that way. I guess it remains to be seen how this pans out.


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          • #20
            How the thing competes with Dynamics, assuming that Practice would even work the same, is really irrelvant, considering how the distinction will not come up in the majority of cases. That said, with the emphasis placed on responsibility in casting, in managing logistics and careful application, I approve of something that makes one require serious consideration of the use of each spell. As a matter of personal taste, I also prefer that spells not be things that can be designed with layers of contingencies.
            Originally posted by Ophidimancer
            It's the other function, the one that lets you use the regular spell control rules to exempt classes of targets instead of specific targets that I found to be the most useful.
            I find that to be the same difference. Don't go putting curses up around your house if you don't want them to strike random pedestrians.
            Originally posted by Ophidimancer
            It required setup
            I can't access my book at the moment, so can you tell me what setup that was?


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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            • #21
              I'm with Ophidimancer here. Class exemption was one of the reasons I'd pick up fate 2 eventually in every game (except for when I played an Acanthus; then I would pick up fate for all the juicy dice manipulations at higher levels).

              I guess the developers didn't like that. Or they didn't consider it an option to begin with so the wording change didn't stick out to them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                How the thing competes with Dynamics, assuming that Practice would even work the same, is really irrelvant, considering how the distinction will not come up in the majority of cases.
                Yep, good point.

                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                That said, with the emphasis placed on responsibility in casting, in managing logistics and careful application, I approve of something that makes one require serious consideration of the use of each spell. As a matter of personal taste, I also prefer that spells not be things that can be designed with layers of contingencies. I find that to be the same difference. Don't go putting curses up around your house if you don't want them to strike random pedestrians.
                On the other hand, there's also things like nu-Wisdom being more forgiving if your actions are premeditated instead of in the heat of the moment.

                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                I can't access my book at the moment, so can you tell me what setup that was?
                Page 128, Spell Control, mages can restrict the target's of their existing spells or reduce their Potency as an Instant Action (including reducing Potency for specific targets instead of as a whole), but they cannot restrict classes of targets without Fate 2 and all restrictions or reductions are permanent, you can't restore your spell back to full power with regular spell control, you have to just cast it anew.


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                • #23
                  On the subject of Wisdom: Dave has also clarified elsewhere that you need to take an Obsession focused on raising Wisdom in order to do so at all, meaning that wanting to redress that interferes with a mage's mystical studies and developments.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                  • #24
                    Wait, WHAT?! Where?

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                    • #25
                      Nothing in Dave's spoilers actually say that category/class exemptions are gone. He says that there's a Fate spell that lets you tag people so that your Area of Effect spells miss them. It's entirely possible that you can still use Fate to exempt by category, as he didn't say anything about that one way or the other. The function that Ophidimancer talks about caring less about ("miraculously" only hurting the people you want to hurt with your AoEs") is the only one that's been officially commented on so far, but that doesn't mean the other one is gone.

                      Especially considering, y'know, it's a spell now, and Creative Thaumaturgy is still the backbone of the casting system.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Juhn View Post
                        Nothing in Dave's spoilers actually say that category/class exemptions are gone. He says that there's a Fate spell that lets you tag people so that your Area of Effect spells miss them. It's entirely possible that you can still use Fate to exempt by category, as he didn't say anything about that one way or the other. The function that Ophidimancer talks about caring less about ("miraculously" only hurting the people you want to hurt with your AoEs&quot is the only one that's been officially commented on so far, but that doesn't mean the other one is gone.

                        Especially considering, y'know, it's a spell now, and Creative Thaumaturgy is still the backbone of the casting system.
                        Very good point. I think, given that, then the downside of it being a spell instead of an attainment is the cost of conjunctionally casting the spell instead of just paying a mana point.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                          On the subject of Wisdom: Dave has also clarified elsewhere that you need to take an Obsession focused on raising Wisdom in order to do so at all, meaning that wanting to redress that interferes with a mage's mystical studies and developments.
                          I know that the previous page says that you have to buy Wisdom with Arcane XP, but this part is news to me. Got a source?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            Which forum is this, by the way?

                            It is 4chan.

                            I didn't initially mention it by name because some people have certain issues with the forum and I didn't want to create any cross-forum antagonism. However, given the relative spoiler wasteland over the last couple of months, I couldn't resist sharing.

                            Note that Dave is active in other forums besides here and 4chan, including Something Awful and GitP. Capturing all his little Mage spoilers and answers to questions requires a great deal of time, patience, and near-stalker level dedication. We have no doubt missed many spoilers over the months. I believe he likes seeding his info in little piece in different places, and takes some satisfaction is never revealing too much in one place at one time. There's a reason why he's the Mage developer!

                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            On the subject of Wisdom: Dave has also clarified elsewhere that you need to take an Obsession focused on raising Wisdom in order to do so at all, meaning that wanting to redress that interferes with a mage's mystical studies and developments.
                            Originally posted by Juhn View Post
                            I know that the previous page says that you have to buy Wisdom with Arcane XP, but this part is news to me. Got a source?

                            Dave mentioned it today on rpg.net.

                            Originally posted by DaveB
                            Raising Wisdom in 2e is particularly [strike]evil[/strike] thematic - you have to spend at least one story with "Increase my Wisdom" as one of your Obsessions, and then buy it with Arcane Experiences.

                            Which means trying to increase it actively slows your magical development.

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                            • #29
                              Dave also offered some more clarifying information on the Free Council today concerning whether the Order is actually hierarchical. He seems to be in quite the generous mood.

                              Originally posted by DaveB
                              The Free Council accept, on the whole, that individuals have different skills and that subject-matter experts should be listened to (they're Awakened mages, how could they not?) they just firmly believe that it's a matter of specific cases.

                              Their allies in the Diamond have their older and (as the Diamond see it) wiser members in a position of heirarchy - a Mystagogue Heirophant is a Master of an Arcanum and has passed through the fifth initiation of the Mysteries, and he doesn't have to explain his decisions to apprentices.

                              The Free Council will do things like decide "Xenos has a god head for strategy, she should call the shots while we're taking on that Pylon" or "Outis is friends with several Arrows, if we send him to negotiate on our behalf we'll get a better result" decoupled from the size of their magical sticks or "seniority". And when the need for an individual passes, that person's remit vanishes back into the collective assembly - Xenos is the battlefield leader for *that* fight. When it's won, she may be elected again for future fights, especially if she did a good job, but she isn't presumed to be so and have that role when not needed.

                              The "Free" in their name refers to the Assemblies - that they are, as collectives made up of interested mages, not beholden to any of the other Orders. The sect's proper name is "The Council of Free Assemblies," "Free Council" is a shortening, which picks up slightly different connotations.

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                              • #30
                                I'm not at all sure that I like mechanically disincentivizing raising your Wisdom stat, especially considering 2e took lengths to actually make raising things like Integrity/Humanity/etc affordable as opposed to the massive, ludicrous XP sink it was in 1e.

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