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  • branford
    started a topic New Mage 2e Spoilers and Info from Dave!

    New Mage 2e Spoilers and Info from Dave!

    Dave has recently been active and generous on another forum and offered a few new Mage 2e tidbits that I thought people here would greatly enjoy, particularly as the release of the new core hopefully draws near and we ponder the repercussions of the Paradox acquisition of WW and fate of the nWOD.


    First and foremost, Dave revealed the Fate 2 and Time 2 Arcana Attainements. Also, despite indicating in his earlier spoilers that Hung Spell would likely be an attainment, it appears to have been relegated to a spell.

    DaveB Fri 06 Nov 2015 17:15:33
    The Time 2 Attainment is actually Temporal Sympathy. The Fate 2 Attainment, though, is Conditional Duration, the ability to extend a spell's lifetime by specifying a condition that will cancel it immediately.

    There's a Time spell called Hung Spell that allows a mage it's cast on to cast up to its Potency spells "into" it, capturing them the instant before they go off. When Hung Spell's duration ends, any spells in it immediately take place and run their durations as though they'd just been cast.

    Because a mage can cancel any of their spells (as long as they're in spell control still) with a reflexive action, though, a Mage capable of casting Acceleration can, with pre-preparation, have it ready to go should they need it. And be aware that they need it.

    A Mage who has both Time 3 *and* Fate 2 is capable of putting, say, Shifting Sands into a Hung Spell that has a Conditional Duration on it of "I get hurt", so the next time he's injured, even by surprise, he flashes back in time a few turns.

    This is, of course, a flagrant waste of Mana and eats your spell control up.

    In response to an inquiry about what happened to the old 1e Fate 2 "Targeted Exemption," Dave stated,

    DaveB Sat 07 Nov 2015 08:03:18
    Like Hung Spell in Time, it's a function of a spell - there's a Fate 2 spell that lets you tag people so your own area of effect spells miss them.

    Dave commented on Arcane Beats,

    DaveB Thu 05 Nov 2015 16:08:34
    Arcane Beats work almost exactly like normal ones. We clearly lay out which dice rolls (hint: most things to do with spellcasting) give aBeats if you dramatic failure them, and which ones give Conditions that grant aBeats.

    Where it gets interesting is what you spend Arcane Experiences on. It's not just Gnosis now - the difference between types of Arcana for your Path is how many dots you can spend regular experiences on before you have to start spending arcane, you have to buy Wisdom with arcane, that kind of thing.

    I've got a lot of candidates for "this is Awakening's central thesis" but calling the Aspiration-equivalents for Arcane Beats "Obsessions" as a thing you get on your character sheet was pretty much the first thing we decided to do for Mage, back when we were writing God-Machine Chronicle.

    Some additional clarifications about sympathetic and shadow names,

    DaveB Thu 05 Nov 2015 16:35:39
    ("sympathetic name" in 2e changed from 1e's "real name" for inclusiveness but also just plain clarity reasons. A "True Name" has always been, and still is, a specific Archmage-only Space 7 spell. Many people get that wrong.)

    Your Shadow Name cannot accrue sympathy, no. Nor do you get much of a say in what your sympathetic name is. It's the name the people with sympathetic links to a child think of it as during the period of child development until it has a sense of self (and therefore of separation - which in Mage turns, is when the Lie sets in.)

    No matter how many times you change your name, even if you don't know what it is, your sympathetic name is scarred into your Space Pattern.
    DaveB Thu 05 Nov 2015 16:48:56
    >But what about if my parents first name for me is Elizabeth Ascher but even they don't actually *call* me that, they just call me Lizzy?

    Then your sympathetic name is Lizzy.

    >What about if I was adopted, and the people who have blood relation to me didn't give me a name but people with no blood relation gave me a name?

    "people with sympathetic links to a child" does not necessarily automatically mean "birth parents"

    Some general insight into most normal human's general interaction with supernatural events in the nWOD,

    DaveB Sat 07 Nov 2015 05:28:14
    People in the nWoD tend toward "ignore it and it'll go away" for *most* supernatural events, and outright "lose their memory of it altogether" for Supernal manifestations.

    It's not a mistake, it's that mage magic gives you amnesia *on top* of everyone's generally-conditioned tendency to be in denial.

    A mage-centric reader might suppose that the latter is a weak form of Quiescence that covers everything supernatural but not Supernal. I prefer to think of it as human nature.
    DaveB Sat 07 Nov 2015 05:54:28
    >the nWOD default setting position is that most people generally know "something" supernatural is out there and is bad, but they keep their mouths shut, heads down, and just hope they don't someday end up lunch for a creature of the night?

    Yes

    >Do most mortals in the nWOD actually experience or have contact with some supernatural event or creature during their lives

    Also yes. The nWoD is a very, very weird place.
    And lastly, some potentially positive news about Mage 2e's short-term future.

    In response to an inquiry concerning whether the Paradox acquisition of WW will affect the Mage 2e release schedule, including putting Signs of Sorcery on hold or delaying the release of the new core, Dave replied,

    DaveB Sat 07 Nov 2015 06:53:28
    Signs of Sorcery is not on hold. It's long since contracted, and first drafts are due in just over a week.



  • Zombiecakes
    replied
    Neat! Personally i prefer the houserule where the optional Arcanum is available for Ruling if you already have the primary as one already, but this is good for those Orphans/Thread-Cutters/Daione/etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by Zombiecakes View Post
    What does he mean by double Ruling Arcanum? As in an Acanthus picking a Fate based Legacy, thus overlapping your Ruling once again?

    Yes, precisely.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    Yup, exactly that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zombiecakes
    replied
    What does he mean by double Ruling Arcanum? As in an Acanthus picking a Fate based Legacy, thus overlapping your Ruling once again?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    Eh, it's still just an XP rebate, but it could add up to 1 higher Gnosis before others might get it. That's enough of a boost to the idea of greater/more focused arcane insight for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Is it final - final? Cause I see some hacks will go on in normal campaing rules...

    Dave apparently posted the information this morning, and the text for Mage 2e is final and in layout. Absent minor errata, I do not believe there will any changes.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Is it final - final? Cause I see some hacks will go on in normal campaing rules if answer is yes...

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Dave has revealed the final Legacies rule concerning mages with a double Ruling Arcanum:


    DaveB 01/31/16(Sun)05:45:49
    >have you spoiled what happens when a Path Legacy has a double Ruling Arcanum?

    Every time you buy an Attainment (which can be with normal or arcane xp) you get an Arcane Experience. So it's functionally cheaper and lets you convert some normal Experiences into Arcane, meaning double-ruling Legacy members will go up Gnosis faster.

    In the Cryptologis' case, though, I'm likely to make them Prime with optional Mind, as Prime handles High Speech and truthiness now..

    Leave a comment:


  • Errol216
    replied
    The ST who ran Voice of Freedom did something neat where the Thyrsus mages of the city formed their own spirit court with ranks and stuff. I thought that was a cool approach to mages of a Path flocking together.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Here's some more information by Dave from 4chan about mage apprenticeships:

    Is it either socially permissible or acceptable for a mage to apprentice a mage of a different Order? Do mages normally choose or join an order before or after their apprenticeship?

    DaveB Thu 28 Jan 2016 10:40:38

    Yes, totally. Mages normally choose to join an Order before their first apprenticeship, and then switch to being the student of whoever's teaching them their Legacy (if anyone) once they "graduate."
    Your first tutor is more likely to be in the same Order as you. Your Legacy mentor, once you reach that stage, doesn't have to be.
    If master (tutor?) and apprentice belong to different Orders, when and how does the apprentice learn Order-specific information like rote skills, Order merits and other Order secrets?

    DaveB 01/28/16(Thu)10:58:38

    If their formal (in mage society) mentor is in a different Order, there'll be someone in their Order whose job it is to teach them their rote skills, rotes, and indoctrinate them appropriately. Remember, also - most mages' Orders are basically their "job"; if you're a junior Guardian, it doesn't matter if the person recognised by the city as having responsibility for you is a Mystagogue because she's of the same Path and you clicked personality-wise, you'll still be getting missions from your nearest Cultor.
    Do mages of particular Paths formally associate with one another in a manner similar to Order caucuses?

    Can a mage be an apprentice of someone from a different Path?

    DaveB Tue 19 Jan 2016 16:59:55

    Path-based societies aren't a formalized part of Mage's setting, because after Order, Consilium, Legacy, and Convocation they were a bridge too far of politics, *but*, traditionally a Consilium is one member of each Path, not (as is often assumed) one member of each Order, and mages will tend to talk to other people who see the same Supernal World as them.

    Yes, you can be an apprentice of any other mage. Sharing a Path has the upside of definitely qualifying you for their Legacy and having practical experience on hand for dealing with your Supernal World, not sharing one gives you a broader perspective and - eventually, if they're a Master - someone to teach you past your Path's limits in odd Arcana.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eolirin
    replied
    Originally posted by Strill View Post
    This is a big change in rules. Currently, veiling spells never trigger unseen senses.
    The quoted text has nothing to do with unseen senses and only narrowly applies to veiling spells. You can only tell if someone is contesting the effects of one of your spells, and only if that spell is taking up a control slot. Outside of making Fate magic harder to cheat (which, honestly, is thematically appropriate) there aren't many other significant interactions with the system.

    Leave a comment:


  • MorkaisChosen
    replied
    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
    I think that's if you wish to join a legacy but aren't from the parent Path or Order.
    Yeah, that:

    "Normally, your mage must either belong to the Legacy’s Path or Order. However, it is possible for a mage of any Path or Order to join a Legacy if she learns a Praxis that duplicates the Legacy’s first Attainment, and utilizes one of the Legacy’s Yantras."

    I'd expect it to be required to create a legacy, too, but for joining you can go straight to Attainments.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    I think that's if you wish to join a legacy but aren't from the parent Path or Order.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tambov
    replied
    Originally posted by MorkaisChosen View Post
    (the only reason I might not have Words of Truth as a Praxis on an Obrimos is the large number of cases where it'll be a Legacy attainment. I have a type. ;-) )
    I'm pretty sure having a spell as a Praxis is the (or at least a) requirement for it being a Legacy Attainment.

    Leave a comment:

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