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[Open Dev]Signs of Sorcery-Introduction and Advanced Mage Sight

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Jacob View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about what an "average" person looks like stat-wise. Once you do you have to start accepting weird things like, "the average plumber has 2.4 children." Not sure what 2.4 children look like. (And this is, of course, the kind of language problem that philosophers quibble about for years on end.)
    It's really not that weird if you understand what the word "average" means in the context of statistics. The problem is, lots of people take "average" to mean "typical" or "most common". But that's not what statisticians mean when they say average. They mean that if you take all the kids of all the plumbers in the world and re-distribute them so that every plumber ends up with the same number of kids, each plumber will have to get two kids and two fifths of a third kid. Nobody actually has 2.4 kids, the number of plumber's kids just doesn't divide evenly between the number of plumbers.

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  • Leetsepeak
    replied
    No, "Average" people are actually pretty easy to make. 2 in every Attribute, 2 in relevant skills, size 5, you're done.

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  • Jacob
    replied
    I wouldn't worry too much about what an "average" person looks like stat-wise. Once you do you have to start accepting weird things like, "the average plumber has 2.4 children." Not sure what 2.4 children look like. (And this is, of course, the kind of language problem that philosophers quibble about for years on end.)

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  • Solar
    replied
    Yeah Willpower 10 people exist

    They're rare, obviously, but still.

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  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    It's just a stat, take it easy.

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  • Kumiko
    replied
    Willpower 10 sleeper? You can't actually be serious. The best you should assume without being either a Hunter or mover and shaker would be Willpower 8. And that is pushing it right to the edge of believability. It's your game though not mine. And not an issue I ever run into.

    It's not even a regular thing for Hunters or Mages to have willpower 10 without serious experience or legitimate reason. Like being Obrimos and not fresh off awakening for example. Given it's kind of their whole deal to be extraordinarily strong willed.
    Last edited by Kumiko; 03-27-2016, 04:55 AM.

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  • Juhn
    replied
    It's just a metaphysical explanation for why witnessing the supernatural causes Integrity breaks in the GMC update (and the CofD core) as per this quote:
    The character witnesses something traumatic, terrifying, or that rattles his understanding of the world.
    , and why this quote is in character creation post-GMC-update:
    What has your character forgotten?
    . Standard blue-book mortals games have always assumed you're playing an average person, so ostensibly if that question's in there, the average person has seen, otherwise encountered, or at least something weird at some point in their life. Heck, according to my copy of CofD the very next sentence is "In the Chronicles of Darkness, it’s next to impossible to grow up without any exposure to the supernatural", so I guess they did come out and make that setting conceit up-front and explicit eventually.

    That being said, explaining away why people are traumatized and would rather forget about the supernatural with "it's a metaphysical curse on their souls" is possibly something that didn't need explaining in the first place, and wouldn't be difficult to change for your own games. It's not like there aren't a load of things in the CofD that don't get clear and concrete explanations for why they happen. I don't think going back to leaving it unexplained the way it was in 1e would be too hard.

    The way the Sleeper template interacts with Integrity already causes some issues porting characters over from 1e, vis-a-vis how Willpower scores interacted with Disbelief and Quiescence. There's a semi-prominent NPC who was a Willpower 10 Sleeper in the Mage game I play in who is now necessarily going to have to be a Sleepwalker-who-doesn't-know-he's-a-Sleepwalker for his concept to make sense under 2e, unless we decide to change things, so those are decisions a lot of us are going to be dealing with.

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  • Solar
    replied
    ...

    Yeah I know what the conceit is and where it's been laid out I just am not a fan of it. But this doesn't get in the way of me being pretty pumped for Mage 2e because I don't have to bring it up.

    As I've said, repeatedly.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    The conceit was not directly stated (and probably won't even be in the new book), but if Mage the Awakening was set in the new World of Darkness, then it was definitely there. That's kind of what made that setting; in contrast to the previous one with "corruption, conspiricy and cynicism run really deep, and the overall cosmetic is more gothic", it was "there's weird mystery and inexplicable horror underlying everything that traumatises almost everybody who doesn't ignore it". How else could Hunter: the Vigil have worked? From Dave's comments, I gather that Innocents (a book that came out in 2008) was the closest to being explicit about it, and I suppose that would have been the case because the premise would really need to address the question of "how can children be involved in this kind of stuff without any kind of adult intervention".

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  • Solar
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Helps illustrate the significance of the Sleeping Curse, for one thing.
    The Sleeping Curse worked just fine last edition without that conceit so I'd say it's an un-needed element.

    EDIT: but it's also not really a big deal either. Like most stuff from the core I dislike (which is very little!) I can easily ignore it.
    Last edited by Solar; 03-26-2016, 06:15 AM.

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  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    Stuff that possess Abyssal Antisymbols are tainted and corrupted by stuff that has no place in reality, toxic and resentful of it.
    Toxic maybe, resentful not necessarily.

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  • Jacob
    replied
    This really sounds like someone, somewhere watched a little too much Aquarion, Aquarion Evol, and Aquarion Logos.

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  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    So okay this is how I understand it.

    The Supernal World is just the symbolism innate to stuff in the world (by world I mean Earth, Underworld, Shadow).

    The Supernal Realms is the symbollic reality beyond the Supernal World, much more pure.

    The Supernal World is an innate trait of the World, just as stuff and people are made up of molecules, they are on a different level, made up of Supernal Symbols.

    The Supernal Realms on the other hand are pure Supernal Symbols unconstrained by the World.

    Supernal Entities are beings that aren't made up of Supernal symbols, they ARE pure Supernal symbols.

    The Lower Depths are Worlds that are absent, or too low in a particular type of Supernal Symbols, were as The World is more balanced (although you'd think the Underworld would be absent of Life, but then again the living can survive in the Underworld).

    So to use a physics analogy the Supernal World like our 4 dimesional world (3d + time), and the Supernal Realms are like higher dimesions that allows the physics of our 3d + time world to work.

    Verges are spaces that are still very much a part of the world, they're not seperate, but elements and influences and energies of the Supernal Realms or the Abyss have leaked into that location, causing it to take on the traits of the symbols that have manifested.

    Example a house that is a Stygia Verge takes on the traits of Stygia, death and matter manifest in weird ways, but the house is still the world, you can still throw rocks through its windows, or open the door and walk in.

    Now a Emination Realm is a place within the Higher Dimesional Space called the Supernal Realms, its not in our world at all, the only way to get their is via IRIS which are doorsway that connect the world and the High Dimesions that are Supernal World.

    The Emination Realms are locations in the Supernal Realms were traits from the world, solidness, and other traits, having leaked into the Supernal Realms creating spaces that mortals and simular beings can inhabit, like a pocket of air in an ocean.

    One can't survive on pure symbols, one needs actual oyxgen, not just the supernal symbol for oxygen.

    When a supernal entity is summoned then, what really happens is it is pulled to your location, and greated the traits of the world, giving it a form beyond just being a Supernal Symbol.

    So to some up the Supernal World isn't a place, its a normally unseen trait of the world, like gravity, atoms, etc...

    The Abyss isn't an nothingness as its ofyen depicted, its more a place of antisymbols and other symbols that have no place in the world and in fact are toxic too it. There is no Abyssal World to the Supernal World, the antisymbols of the abyss are not normally innate stuff in the world, like Supernal Symbols are.

    Stuff that possess Abyssal Antisymbols are tainted and corrupted by stuff that has no place in reality, toxic and resentful of it.

    The Supernatural Realms on the other hand are a higher dimesion, that is unhabitable by humans, except in Emination Realms which are like Space Stations in Outer Space.

    So a vampire is made up of supernal symbols, just like a Vampire is made up of molecules, and bound by the Wyrd.

    Remember all the Splats basically have their own law of magic/physics that shapes reality, that they can influence.

    The Supernal World is the inheriant symbols of stuff, the Wyrd is the inheriant story/narrative of stuff, Vitae is the animating force that animates stuf, so on.

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  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I actually recalled that there is one aspect of Mage that is fairly referential to another game line; Neolithic Mage is set in the time before the Gauntlet, in which stuff from the backstory for Werewolf: the Forsaken is evident and relevant. Helps illustrate the significance of the Sleeping Curse, for one thing.
    It was also an explicit crossover as a result of a Kickstarter stretch goal or contributor tier. Such situations are definitely not the norm for any of the gamelines (except possibly Beast).

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I actually recalled that there is one aspect of Mage that is fairly referential to another game line; Neolithic Mage is set in the time before the Gauntlet, in which stuff from the backstory for Werewolf: the Forsaken is evident and relevant.
    Originally posted by Solar
    seems like an unnecessary conceit
    Helps illustrate the significance of the Sleeping Curse, for one thing.

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