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Alternate Worlds, Lower Depths, and other Fanciful things

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  • Alternate Worlds, Lower Depths, and other Fanciful things

    So, I was reading some Discworld material, specifically having to do with DEATH and his "job". And I was trying to think of a world that made sense in (other than a circular one resting upon four elephants themselves standing upon a turtle, that is).

    Imagine, if you would a realm that is, if not lacking in Death, at least possessing it in diminished quantities. A realm that can't afford to just give every little living thing their own Death, just waiting for the right conditions to have it's day in the light (as it were). A realm where they need to move the Death they have around - where if your head gets cut off, you need to wait (hopefully only a short while) for one of these helpful couriers to bring you a bit of Death and let you carry on your way (after a fashion).

    What other oddities might arise from such a configuration?

    Or can anyone else think up "worlds" that, while they may not be missing one of the Arcana entirely, at least have very diminished amounts of it to go around? (I can almost see one lacking in Time that behaves almost Turn-Based)
    Last edited by Vent0; 04-08-2016, 08:53 PM.


    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

  • #2
    In Marvel comics they call it the Cancerverse, because everything grows uncontrollably and with strange aeons even death will not die. They actually didn't delve too deep into what it was like, it just had evil versions of everyone.

    Would a world without or without much Space be 1, 2 dimensional, or compacted into a single point?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      In Marvel comics they call it the Cancerverse, because everything grows uncontrollably and with strange aeons even death will not die. They actually didn't delve too deep into what it was like, it just had evil versions of everyone.

      Would a world without or without much Space be 1, 2 dimensional, or compacted into a single point?
      Well, if we're talking Space in the sense of literal, physical space. Alternately, we could have a world lacking Space as correspondence, meaning things don't connect, cause and effect are demonstrably disconnected, and numerous rules of geometry break down. Think about how hard an M. C. Escher painting is to navigate, and you start to touch on why Space-deficient realms are dangerous to Mages.

      EDIT:
      Originally posted by Deionscribe View Post
      Actually, this might inspire a few ideas for the setting hack I'm doing for my own stuff.

      I've been trying to adapt some elements of the Woundgate setting from Mirrors, specifically the Shatter. But instead of the fluff written in that supplement, I'm trying to tie them into different other origins. With remnants of the Border Marches and material manifestations of the Supernal being some examples.
      You might want to look into Emanation Realms from...Imperial Mysteries I think? It might have been Summoners.

      Also, how would the Astral figure into your hack? Is it still a mental realm, or is it a world that physically exists, but is influenced by humanity.
      Last edited by malonkey1; 04-08-2016, 09:44 PM.


      Genius: the Transgression 2E is a thing that's being worked on.

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      • #4
        Actually, this might inspire a few ideas for the setting hack I'm doing for my own stuff.

        I've been trying to adapt some elements of the Woundgate setting from Mirrors, specifically the Shatter. But instead of the fluff written in that supplement, I'm trying to tie them into different other origins. With remnants of the Border Marches and material manifestations of the Supernal being some examples.


        "My Homebrew Hub"
        Age of Azar
        The Kingdom of Yamatai

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        • #5
          Originally posted by malonkey1 View Post
          Well, if we're talking Space in the sense of literal, physical space. Alternately, we could have a world lacking Space as correspondence, meaning things don't connect, cause and effect are demonstrably disconnected, and numerous rules of geometry break down. Think about how hard an M. C. Escher painting is to navigate, and you start to touch on why Space-deficient realms are dangerous to Mages.
          I could see a world/place with limited Space existing like a set of places that exist independent of each other, baring limited, momentary connections. IE, the "places" don't have permanent or contiguous correspondence to each other.

          What about a place lacking in Spirit, or Prime?

          And how would "harvesters" in the main world (of Darkness) go about "collecting"? What would they be like, and what effects would they have?


          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmm... What would a world without Fate be? Would it be perfectly deterministic and devoid of all randomness?

            Then you have a world without Prime, which you can't escape from because magic is impossible there.
            Last edited by Strill; 04-09-2016, 08:32 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Strill View Post
              Hmm... What would a world without Fate be? Would it be perfectly deterministic and devoid of all randomness?

              Then you have a world without Prime, which you can't escape from because magic is impossible there.

              Or a world without Fate is completely open, with nothing determined.

              Prime is more than just "magic" I think. Isn't it also supposed to be "Truth"?


              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                Prime is more than just "magic" I think. Isn't it also supposed to be "Truth"?
                Prime is mana. A Primeless world is one big dead zone.

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                • #9
                  Prime is also Truth, and Yantras, Revelations, etc. It's more than just mana.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Strill View Post
                    Hmm... What would a world without Fate be? Would it be perfectly deterministic and devoid of all randomness?
                    Extreme randomness.

                    No such thing as cause and effect.

                    It's weird, because fate 'sort of' exists, it's just really hard to figure out. If you flip a coin, depending upon the force you use to do so, how it was placed, and a few more things, all get together to determine whether it lands heads or tails. I suspect in a few years they'll have computers that can determine the outcome by the time it reaches the top of the arc, if they don't already. And almost everything else is based off the same idea, even, arguably, human decision. There's just so many factors involved it's impossible for a human and even a computer to factor them all. But Fate seems to make an end run.

                    As evidenced above, though, I'm not quite sure how Mage portrays the Arcana. I'm getting into it in preparation for second edition but I've only access to a few books. Anyways, without Fate as I, admittedly maybe mistakenly, understand it, you would have no connectivity between what you are doing now and what you will be doing in five minutes, just like how you would flip a coin would have no impact on how it would fall.

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                    • #11
                      Considering that Prime is more about Symbolic Truths and how they are the basis for much of Will-Working, I'd say the Abyss lacks Prime. Mages with Malonkey1's Abyssal Arcanum have Prime as their Inferior Arcanum, and it's not hard to see why. Another user in the thread for that homebrew mentioned that Prime is the Eternal Truth to the Abyss' Eternal Lie. After all, the power of the Abyss is to corrupt Supernal symbols. Everything about Abyssals is described as simply Wrong or False, and not just in an eldritch or Uncanny Valley way.

                      All of this would make the Abyss qualify as the Lowest Depth, seeing as how its shards inside Sleeper souls trigger Dissonance, Quiescence and worsen Paradox.

                      The only other hypothetical realms with as much significance that I know of are the Empyrean/Principle and Starry A'aru, but those aren't strictly "Lower" Depths.


                      Let Him Speak.

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                      • #12
                        A world without shrimp. Then, a world with nothing but shrimp

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
                          Considering that Prime is more about Symbolic Truths and how they are the basis for much of Will-Working, I'd say the Abyss lacks Prime. Mages with Malonkey1's Abyssal Arcanum have Prime as their Inferior Arcanum, and it's not hard to see why. Another user in the thread for that homebrew mentioned that Prime is the Eternal Truth to the Abyss' Eternal Lie. After all, the power of the Abyss is to corrupt Supernal symbols. Everything about Abyssals is described as simply Wrong or False, and not just in an eldritch or Uncanny Valley way.

                          All of this would make the Abyss qualify as the Lowest Depth, seeing as how its shards inside Sleeper souls trigger Dissonance, Quiescence and worsen Paradox.

                          The only other hypothetical realms with as much significance that I know of are the Empyrean/Principle and Starry A'aru, but those aren't strictly "Lower" Depths.

                          Prime is no more or less important than the rest of the arcana which also deal with Truths, just not as directly. So yeah, there's Prime in the Abyss, a corrupted version of it, but there it is. Hence why the Abyss isn't a Lower Depth.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                            So, I was reading some Discworld material, specifically having to do with DEATH and his "job". And I was trying to think of a world that made sense in (other than a circular one resting upon four elephants themselves standing upon a turtle, that is).

                            Imagine, if you would a realm that is, if not lacking in Death, at least possessing it in diminished quantities. A realm that can't afford to just give every little living thing their own Death, just waiting for the right conditions to have it's day in the light (as it were). A realm where they need to move the Death they have around - where if your head gets cut off, you need to wait (hopefully only a short while) for one of these helpful couriers to bring you a bit of Death and let you carry on your way (after a fashion).

                            What other oddities might arise from such a configuration?

                            Or can anyone else think up "worlds" that, while they may not be missing one of the Arcana entirely, at least have very diminished amounts of it to go around? (I can almost see one lacking in Time that behaves almost Turn-Based)
                            Piers Anthony did a series about this very thing 7 books each dealing with a different incarnation and the person whose job it was to be Death, Time, War, Fate, Mother Nature , The Devil (I forget the other incarnation iirc it had something to with Good).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kumiko View Post
                              Piers Anthony did a series about this very thing 7 books each dealing with a different incarnation and the person whose job it was to be Death, Time, War, Fate, Mother Nature , The Devil (I forget the other incarnation iirc it had something to with Good).

                              The Incarnations of Immortality series.

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