Warlocks of Arcadia, 2e-style

[Azunth]

The thing with Acts of Hubris is that they're much more about what the mage does, rather than what they can't do or what happens to them. So the Shame would have to reflect that. It would be, rather than a counterintutive mental block, something more along the character being caught up in the sensations of the feelings of his path so that his magic controls him, rather than the other way around. It would be in theme with the path/Realm, but opposed to the arcanum in some way. It would also limit the caster in some way.

So, some ideas.

Primal Wild Shame of Matter: Some mages of the Primal Wild, caught up in all of nature, loose track of their nature as humans- and humans are a tool-using species. Whenever a Mage rushes into a situation in the pursuit of her Obsessions, only to find herself badly lacking needed tools or equpiment, she suffers a breaking point. Examples would include going hiking without a map, provisions, or compass, or breaking into a house for documents, only to find she doesn't have a way to copy or carry off whatever she finds) Using magic to circumvent such a lack of tools (For example, if our ill-prepared thrysus decides to explore an underwater cave, but doesn't bring along diving gear or headlamps, that's a breaking point- especically if it was an impulse.) Matter is an Inferior Arcanum

Aether SHame of Matter: Staring in awe at the power of the Aether, the Mage can loose track of the destruction it causes on earth. If a mage has caused considerable collateral damage to her surroundings in the last scene, she suffers a breaking point. Matter is the Characters Inferior Arcanum.

Enchanter Shame of Mind: People choose their own path ultimately. This is the first Oath made by Fate But caught up in the stories and strands of fate, Mages play with people like puppets, think them a slave of circumstance, and ram fate unsubtly down the throats of those who don't play their role. A mage of this Shame has Mind as an Inferior Arcanum. In addition, he suffers a breaking point whenever he tries to forcibly control someone's life using magic- altering or laying a destinty to "keep someone on track", tricking people into oaths, hitting them with evil eyes or sabotaging them when they deviate from your character's will all count. This doesn't apply when the character is trying to convince, persuade, bribe, or cut deals with people, simply provide nudges, or - only if the Mage tries to brute force his target into compliance, and punsishes when they defy his will.

Shaman Shame of Life: Some Ecstatics forget their body. If a mage pushes their phsysical body too far through self-indulgence, or neglects his physical needs, he suffers a breaking point.

[Azunth]

Also some Paradox ideas.

Paradoxes drawn by the Primal Wild Shame of Matter tend to focus on tools, or tools as the function of civilization. They ruin equipment and infrastructure, or replace it and cause it to behave strangely or perversely.

The Aether Shame of Matter simply tends to wreck things- Abyssal storms are distressingly common, or abyssal manifestations that sink into the landscape to make them more dangerous.

The paradoxes of an Enchanter Shamed of Mind tend to be bizarre alterations of behavior; irrational hatreds of promises and oaths, an inability to give up on a task or course of action, or literal addictions to defiance or conformity.

Shaman Shames of Life tend to push people into ruining their bodies- addictions are common, as are diseases that drive people to physical activity even as their bodies fall apart.

Warlock Shame of Prime: Some Warlocks forget that not everyone is prepared to see magic. Whenever a sleeper or sleepwalker makes a breaking point due to the supernatural (not necessarily the supernal) due to his actions (whether it be through obvious magic or the Warlock dragging them to fight a vampire without thinking), it is a breaking point for the mage.

Paradox entities called up by this Shame are among the greatest threats to the Mysteries- either overtly supernatural monstosities that ramage on the evening news, or sublter things that tear the scales of the eyes of Sleepers- and even sleepwalkers- to things they would rather not know.

Warlock Shame of Fate: Choice does not always win out over circumstance. Whenever a warlock persuades or controls someone into making a decision with seriously deletrious consequences for the target, he suffers a breaking point.

Paradoxes called by this Shame tend to force people down self-destructive paths, or twist fate so that what's bad is good and what is wise is foolish- chance ruins sleepers who take prudent actions, but saves those who make decisions that would rightly get themselves hurt or killed.

[Dataweaver]

Nitpick: Shaman Shames are Death, Fate, Mind, and Prime; never Life. If you want a Shaman who's Shame is Life, be sure to have her Awaken to a Watchtower other than the one in the Primal Wild: so, for example, she might be a Shaman of Stygia (the Realm of Matter) with a Stygian Shame of Life; or she may be a Shaman of Arcadia (the Realm of Time) with an Arcadian Shame of Life.

The Shames

Watchtower Realms (Gross Arcana)	Soul Archetypes (Subtle Arcana)
Arcadia: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time	Witch: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
Pandemonium: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time	Warlock: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
Stygia: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time	Alchemist: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
the Aether: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time	Theurge: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
the Primal Wild: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time	Shaman: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit

In the end, I intend to format these in the following manner (for now, pay attention to the structure, not the contents):

Arcadia
[paragraph about why Time is the Ruling Arcanum]
[paragraph about Arcadian Mage Sight and Supernal Summons]

Shames
• ___: [paragraph about why Forces is the Shame]
[paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
[paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

• ___: [paragraph about why Life is the Shame]
[paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
[paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

• ___: [paragraph about why Matter is the Shame]
[paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
[paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

• ___: [paragraph about why Space is the Shame]
[paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
[paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

Basically, ten writeups, one for each Realm and one for each Archetype, each detailing four Shames.

[Dataweaver]

Also: 2e has changed the primary terms for Acanthus and Moros from Enchanter and Necromancer to Witch and Alchemist, respectively. I don't have a problem with the former; but given that the Ruling Arcanum provided by the latter is Death, we probably should go back to calling them Necromancers.

[Mrmdubois]

Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.

[Satchel]

Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.

I'm moderately certain that, even if attaching the Path sobriquets to Ruling Arcana priority was the definite basis,* "Witch" is more strongly associated with Fate.

* Both conventional names for the Obrimos essentially marry the divine with the "-worker" suffix, and asserting that either of "Psychonaut" or "Warlock" is the term for a Space-focused Mastigos strikes me as a losing proposition, to say nothing of how the Seers provide a third name for all five Paths.

[Dataweaver]

Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.

I'm referring to two things here: first, which name gets top billing in 2e. Both (well, all three) are used in practice; but the 2e writeup for the Moros begins with “The Alchemist”. Out of deference to the top billing, I've thus far tried to use Witch instead of Enchanter and Alchemist instead of Necromancer. However, the second thing:

Note that I haven't been talking about the Acanthus or the Moros; those are Paths (two among many) which, in this variant, are defined by their Watchtower, Archetype, and Shame: so what would normally be called Acanthus are Witches of Arcadia, Shamed by Forces; and instead of Moros you have ___ of Stygia, Shamed by Spirit. In this model, the Archetype is associated with the Subtle Ruling Arcanum, not both Ruling Arcana; so the Archetype of the Path Formerly Known as Moros ought to be the Necromancer. This is perhaps an unfortunate artifact of the origins of this hack.

In some ways, I'd be happier using the MtC designations for the Pillars; but said associations are imprecise (Fate and Name aren't really the same thing; just the “least worst fit” when trying to align the two), and “Ren of Arcadia” doesn't sound nearly as good as “Witch of Arcadia”.

[Kumiko]

I figure if I give an opinion it's tread rapping so PM me for why I think it's obvious why even you know it's way too complicated answer to a painfully s simple question.

[PenDragon]

When I said "cut the thread capping" that meant "cut it right now", not "make one last snide post". Have a week off.

-Pendagon

[Dataweaver]

Would it be reasonable to treat Shames like a specialized kind of Aspirations? That is, the “acts of humility” become ways of earning Beats that can be spent on raising your Wisdom.

Also, a methodology that I'm thinking of to define the Shames is to contrast each potential Inferior Arcanum with the Ruling Arcanum; so the Arcadian Shame of Forces would be built off of a contrast between Forces and Time, and the Theurge Shame of Death would be based on a contrast between Death and Prime.

[thenate]

That does sound workable, Data. Possibly Conditions that grant Beats for use in bumping up Wisdom.

If you are interested, I could chuck you that Path fiddling thing I was working on a few years back. I was trying to ditch "inferior arcana" and replace them with path-specific attainments and mystical merits and flaws, so it's a very different approach but it might prompt some ideas.