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  • Dataweaver
    started a topic Warlocks of Arcadia, 2e-style

    Warlocks of Arcadia, 2e-style

    The purpose of this hack is to update the “Warlocks of Arcadia” Path variant from Mage Chronicler's Guide to work with the added effort that Mage 2e has put into investing more meaning into the Paths than just what your Arcanum biases are.

    An Awakening is what happens when a part of your soul connects to a Watchtower, forming a Path between them. As such, your Path is determined by which Watchtower connects to which part of your soul; so a “Warlock of Arcadia” is on a Path that is anchored to his spirit (what the Arisen would call his Ba). Every mage also has a Shame, chosen either from his Watchtower Realm or his Soul, which represents the Abyssal blockade that paradoxically disrupts his Path. The Warlock of Arcadia can choose one of four Warlock Shames or one of four Arcadian Shames; more details later.

    Mage Sight is flavored primarily by your Watchtower, while your Oneiros and Astral Path take on characteristics suitable to your soul affinity; so our Warlock of Arcadia will find Mastigos-like trappings in his Oneiros and on his Astral Path, while seeing Arcadian symbology with his Mage Sight. Likewise, the mage's Shame influences the form that Abyssal incursions take, and each Shame defines a Wisdom Breaking Point unique to that Shame.

    The soul-anchor determines the mage's Subtle Ruling Arcanum (in this case, Mind), while the Watchtower determines his Gross Ruling Arcanum (e.g., Time) and the Shame determines the Inferior Arcanum (which is Subtle if the Shame comes from the Soul, or Gross if the Shame comes from the Watchtower).

    All that needs to be done now is to determine how to select the Favored Attribute and to develop the Shames.


    Favored Attributes
    Traditionally, every Path has favored a Resistance Attribute, either Resolve or Composure: the Acanthus, Moros, and Thyrsus have favored Composure while the Mastigos and Obrimos have favored Resolve. However, MtC (from which the five-fold soul concept was shamelessly stolen) aligns each kind of soul to a different Attribute: Heart (Ab, Thyrsus) → Presence; Spirit (Ba, Mastigos) → Wits; Essence (Ka, Obrimos) → Resolve; Name (Ren, Acanthus) → Manipulation; Shadow (Sheut, Moros) → Composure. It's tempting to try to somehow incorporate this notion into the revised Warlocks of Arcadia model; but I'm not quite sure how.

    One possibility is to give the player a choice between a Resistance Attribute (which is always either Resolve or Composure) or a non-Resistance Attribute (e.g., Presence, Wits, or Manipulation). For the three Soul aspects for which MtC specifies non-Resistance Attributes, all the work is already done: Acanthus favors Manipulation or Composure, Mastigos favors Wits or Resolve, and Thyrsus favors Presence or Composure. That leaves Moros favoring ___ or Composure, and Obrimos favoring ___ or Resolve. My gut instinct would be to associate Intelligence with the Moros and Presence with the Obrimos, giving us the following:

    Witch Manipulation or Composure
    Warlock Wits or Resolve
    Alchemist Intelligence or Composure
    Theurge Presence or Resolve
    Shaman Presence or Composure

    Shames
    Every Watchtower and Soul has four Shames, for a total of fourty Shames (or ten, if the Shames are reused; but I think it would be more interesting if, say, a Forced-oriented Arcadian Shame felt different from a Forces-oriented Pandemonium Shame). The following are the Shames available to the Warlock of Arcadia:

    Arcadian Shames (Ruling Time)
    • ___ (Inferior Forces)
    • ___ (Inferior Life)
    • ___ (Inferior Matter)
    • ___ (Inferior Space)

    Warlock Shames (Ruling Mind)
    • ___ (Inferior Death)
    • ___ (Inferior Fate)
    • ___ (Inferior Prime)
    • ___ (Inferior Spirit)

    I'm particularly interested in help in fleshing out the Shames, since investing a Shame with meaning beyond your choice of Inferior Arcanum has the potential to transform it from “a forced negative that is likely to be strategically chosen to minimize its impact” to “a roleplaying choice that the player is encouraged to bring into the game whenever it's reasonable to do so”.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 04-14-2016, 07:58 PM.

  • thenate
    replied
    That does sound workable, Data. Possibly Conditions that grant Beats for use in bumping up Wisdom.

    If you are interested, I could chuck you that Path fiddling thing I was working on a few years back. I was trying to ditch "inferior arcana" and replace them with path-specific attainments and mystical merits and flaws, so it's a very different approach but it might prompt some ideas.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Would it be reasonable to treat Shames like a specialized kind of Aspirations? That is, the “acts of humility” become ways of earning Beats that can be spent on raising your Wisdom.

    Also, a methodology that I'm thinking of to define the Shames is to contrast each potential Inferior Arcanum with the Ruling Arcanum; so the Arcadian Shame of Forces would be built off of a contrast between Forces and Time, and the Theurge Shame of Death would be based on a contrast between Death and Prime.

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  • PenDragon
    replied
    When I said "cut the thread capping" that meant "cut it right now", not "make one last snide post". Have a week off.

    -Pendagon

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  • Kumiko
    replied
    I figure if I give an opinion it's tread rapping so PM me for why I think it's obvious why even you know it's way too complicated answer to a painfully s simple question.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
    Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.
    I'm referring to two things here: first, which name gets top billing in 2e. Both (well, all three) are used in practice; but the 2e writeup for the Moros begins with “The Alchemist”. Out of deference to the top billing, I've thus far tried to use Witch instead of Enchanter and Alchemist instead of Necromancer. However, the second thing:

    Note that I haven't been talking about the Acanthus or the Moros; those are Paths (two among many) which, in this variant, are defined by their Watchtower, Archetype, and Shame: so what would normally be called Acanthus are Witches of Arcadia, Shamed by Forces; and instead of Moros you have ___ of Stygia, Shamed by Spirit. In this model, the Archetype is associated with the Subtle Ruling Arcanum, not both Ruling Arcana; so the Archetype of the Path Formerly Known as Moros ought to be the Necromancer. This is perhaps an unfortunate artifact of the origins of this hack.

    In some ways, I'd be happier using the MtC designations for the Pillars; but said associations are imprecise (Fate and Name aren't really the same thing; just the “least worst fit” when trying to align the two), and “Ren of Arcadia” doesn't sound nearly as good as “Witch of Arcadia”.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 04-18-2016, 01:01 AM.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
    Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.
    I'm moderately certain that, even if attaching the Path sobriquets to Ruling Arcana priority was the definite basis,* "Witch" is more strongly associated with Fate.

    * Both conventional names for the Obrimos essentially marry the divine with the "-worker" suffix, and asserting that either of "Psychonaut" or "Warlock" is the term for a Space-focused Mastigos strikes me as a losing proposition, to say nothing of how the Seers provide a third name for all five Paths.

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  • Mrmdubois
    replied
    Actually neither nickname is primary, it just depends on which ruling arcana the Mage focuses on. A Matter focused Moros gets called an Alchemist, and Time focused Acanthus is a Witch.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Also: 2e has changed the primary terms for Acanthus and Moros from Enchanter and Necromancer to Witch and Alchemist, respectively. I don't have a problem with the former; but given that the Ruling Arcanum provided by the latter is Death, we probably should go back to calling them Necromancers.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Nitpick: Shaman Shames are Death, Fate, Mind, and Prime; never Life. If you want a Shaman who's Shame is Life, be sure to have her Awaken to a Watchtower other than the one in the Primal Wild: so, for example, she might be a Shaman of Stygia (the Realm of Matter) with a Stygian Shame of Life; or she may be a Shaman of Arcadia (the Realm of Time) with an Arcadian Shame of Life.

    The Shames
    Watchtower Realms (Gross Arcana) Soul Archetypes (Subtle Arcana)
    Arcadia: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time Witch: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
    Pandemonium: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time Warlock: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
    Stygia: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time Alchemist: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
    the Aether: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time Theurge: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
    the Primal Wild: Forces, Life, Matter, Space, Time Shaman: Death, Fate, Mind, Prime, Spirit
    In the end, I intend to format these in the following manner (for now, pay attention to the structure, not the contents):
    Arcadia
    [paragraph about why Time is the Ruling Arcanum]
    [paragraph about Arcadian Mage Sight and Supernal Summons]

    Shames
    • ___: [paragraph about why Forces is the Shame]
    [paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
    [paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

    • ___: [paragraph about why Life is the Shame]
    [paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
    [paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

    • ___: [paragraph about why Matter is the Shame]
    [paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
    [paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]

    • ___: [paragraph about why Space is the Shame]
    [paragraph describing Paradox as seen through this Shame]
    [paragraph about this Shame's Breaking Point]
    Basically, ten writeups, one for each Realm and one for each Archetype, each detailing four Shames.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 10-14-2018, 03:30 AM.

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  • Azunth
    replied
    Also some Paradox ideas.

    Paradoxes drawn by the Primal Wild Shame of Matter tend to focus on tools, or tools as the function of civilization. They ruin equipment and infrastructure, or replace it and cause it to behave strangely or perversely.

    The Aether Shame of Matter simply tends to wreck things- Abyssal storms are distressingly common, or abyssal manifestations that sink into the landscape to make them more dangerous.

    The paradoxes of an Enchanter Shamed of Mind tend to be bizarre alterations of behavior; irrational hatreds of promises and oaths, an inability to give up on a task or course of action, or literal addictions to defiance or conformity.

    Shaman Shames of Life tend to push people into ruining their bodies- addictions are common, as are diseases that drive people to physical activity even as their bodies fall apart.

    Warlock Shame of Prime: Some Warlocks forget that not everyone is prepared to see magic. Whenever a sleeper or sleepwalker makes a breaking point due to the supernatural (not necessarily the supernal) due to his actions (whether it be through obvious magic or the Warlock dragging them to fight a vampire without thinking), it is a breaking point for the mage.

    Paradox entities called up by this Shame are among the greatest threats to the Mysteries- either overtly supernatural monstosities that ramage on the evening news, or sublter things that tear the scales of the eyes of Sleepers- and even sleepwalkers- to things they would rather not know.

    Warlock Shame of Fate: Choice does not always win out over circumstance. Whenever a warlock persuades or controls someone into making a decision with seriously deletrious consequences for the target, he suffers a breaking point.

    Paradoxes called by this Shame tend to force people down self-destructive paths, or twist fate so that what's bad is good and what is wise is foolish- chance ruins sleepers who take prudent actions, but saves those who make decisions that would rightly get themselves hurt or killed.
    Last edited by Azunth; 04-17-2016, 05:23 PM.

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  • Azunth
    replied
    The thing with Acts of Hubris is that they're much more about what the mage does, rather than what they can't do or what happens to them. So the Shame would have to reflect that. It would be, rather than a counterintutive mental block, something more along the character being caught up in the sensations of the feelings of his path so that his magic controls him, rather than the other way around. It would be in theme with the path/Realm, but opposed to the arcanum in some way. It would also limit the caster in some way.

    So, some ideas.

    Primal Wild Shame of Matter: Some mages of the Primal Wild, caught up in all of nature, loose track of their nature as humans- and humans are a tool-using species. Whenever a Mage rushes into a situation in the pursuit of her Obsessions, only to find herself badly lacking needed tools or equpiment, she suffers a breaking point. Examples would include going hiking without a map, provisions, or compass, or breaking into a house for documents, only to find she doesn't have a way to copy or carry off whatever she finds) Using magic to circumvent such a lack of tools (For example, if our ill-prepared thrysus decides to explore an underwater cave, but doesn't bring along diving gear or headlamps, that's a breaking point- especically if it was an impulse.) Matter is an Inferior Arcanum

    Aether SHame of Matter: Staring in awe at the power of the Aether, the Mage can loose track of the destruction it causes on earth. If a mage has caused considerable collateral damage to her surroundings in the last scene, she suffers a breaking point. Matter is the Characters Inferior Arcanum.

    Enchanter Shame of Mind: People choose their own path ultimately. This is the first Oath made by Fate But caught up in the stories and strands of fate, Mages play with people like puppets, think them a slave of circumstance, and ram fate unsubtly down the throats of those who don't play their role. A mage of this Shame has Mind as an Inferior Arcanum. In addition, he suffers a breaking point whenever he tries to forcibly control someone's life using magic- altering or laying a destinty to "keep someone on track", tricking people into oaths, hitting them with evil eyes or sabotaging them when they deviate from your character's will all count. This doesn't apply when the character is trying to convince, persuade, bribe, or cut deals with people, simply provide nudges, or - only if the Mage tries to brute force his target into compliance, and punsishes when they defy his will.

    Shaman Shame of Life: Some Ecstatics forget their body. If a mage pushes their phsysical body too far through self-indulgence, or neglects his physical needs, he suffers a breaking point.
    Last edited by Azunth; 04-17-2016, 04:57 PM.

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  • PenDragon
    replied
    Originally posted by Kumiko View Post

    Convienent. Totally untrue but very convenient. A man must know his limitations. Just like game designer's, game hacker types and MtAw 2e Mages.

    I like the spirit of your idea but think it's deeply flawed and creates more problems for an issue that never needed a solution in the first place.

    You do know any Mage can master any common arcanum with a teacher after having 4 dots on their own?

    So sad they need help to do so with a single arcanum. Here's an idea..talk with your ST and find a way acceptable to both of you to join a published legacy or your own or one that the ST already made and deemed legal in her game...nah, that's less work and makes sense right?
    Because I think this thread is intriguing and would rather not see it collapse on page one, please cut the thread capping.

    If you don't like the concept of a thread, don't post in it.

    -Pendragon

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Intriguing. I'll think about it; there's something to the notion of your Shame being tied to an “act of humility” that helps keep your hubris in check. That said, I'm wary of “positive Breaking Points” when the game is otherwise geared toward Wisdom increase coming from appropriate Experiences; it might work, if the trigger is sufficiently difficult to achieve that the act of humility doesn't render moot the other methods of gaining Wisdom.

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  • Errol216
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Mage Sight is flavored primarily by your Watchtower, while your Oneiros and Astral Path take on characteristics suitable to your soul affinity; so our Warlock of Arcadia will find Mastigos-like trappings in his Oneiros and on his Astral Path, while seeing Arcadian symbology with his Mage Sight. Likewise, the mage's Shame influences the form that Abyssal incursions take, and each Shame defines a Wisdom Breaking Point unique to that Shame.
    Hm. I actually feel like the special Act of Hubris ought to be attached to your Watchtower, not your Shame. Your Shame is, in a sense, the brake on your path to power: it prevents you from going too fast, and is thus conducive to Wisdom. (Actually, if your Shame is connected to a Breaking Point that would move you up, I'd like that. Or your roll can be bonused by relevance to your Shame.)

    I'm going to hold off on helping with names until I've gotten a sense of how all the Arcana have changed in 2e.

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