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  • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
    Feast of Goibnui (Time •••)
    Practice: Perfecting
    Primary Factor: Potency
    Withstand: N/A
    Suggested Rote Skills: Crafts, Medicine, Science

    Speeding up time for something as complex as a living being is difficult, but doing so to complete a predictable procedure is far easier. This allows any autonomous process on a non-living target to be sped up by up to [Potency] days. Images that would take days to process forensically can be completed instantly, food that must spend hours in an oven can be done in moments, medicine that takes days to synthesize can be made quickly available, etc.

    This rote is fairly common for mages with a gastronomic or scientific focus. But it was originally created by the Libertines after the flu plague of 1918, as a way to accelerate research and rapidly stock vaccine banks, especially when faced with any other initiatives of the Raptor's servants.

    +1 Reach: Potency instead speeds up the process by months of time. For another Reach, it instead does so by Potency years, allowing for things like wine and miso to be quickly made. For another Reach, it speeds up the process by any amount of time the mage wishes, but damaging objects requires a different spell.
    I was so sure there must have already be a spell like this in the core book I went to look it up to see what was different, and lo and behold, there wasn't. Glad I can refer to this one from now on.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RobinCoyote View Post

      I'm of the opinion that the solidity/tangibility of something under the purview of an Arcanum is something that any Arcanum should be able to control with the use of Weaving. The wording of weaving is: that the mage "can alter nearly any property of a target" (...I probably should have made this spell weaving with that in mind.) But I believe solidity/tangibility should be one the properties of what you're manipulating. The precedent is already there with Shadow Crafting (Death ••• Weaving spell), and perfectly explains the presence of that oddball spell.
      You can modifies a subject's properties with Weaving, but not all subjects have all properties. Solidity/tangibility is a property of Matter. You can't make "Space" more solid because Space has no "solidity" to begin with. That's why Shrink and Grow and Wonderful Machine are listed as Matter spells, even if they allow a Life conjunctional effect to affect living beings, the properties they modify are Material properties, and thus the purview of Matter.

      Now, I admit the shadow spells under Death throw a wrench in this. But they are clear outliers, and at points specifically contradict other parts of the book, and that's why I don't think they should be used as models for other spells. They are, at best, exceptions.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EW-Matias View Post
        I was so sure there must have already be a spell like this in the core book I went to look it up to see what was different, and lo and behold, there wasn't. Glad I can refer to this one from now on.
        You were probably thinking about Weight of Years. The core book covers aging things into dust, how to use it in combat to cause exhaustion and some Life spells cover rapid aging. But, to me, one of the first things that came to mind was using a blast of aging to speed up things that don't need sentient input. It can both be used for stylistic flare and general utility, so I thought it would be helpful to make one.

        RobinCoyote One theory is that Rigor Mortis is within its purview. Another one is that, since ectoplasm is 3D and shadows are 2D, you are applying the properties of one thing within Death's domain to another. Its so weird that I consider it an edge case, the best explanation I found so far was that they designed that line of spells thinking "we want to give Moros the ability to use Obtenebration from VtM" (glad they did, its a very fun power set)
        Last edited by KaiserAfini; 09-09-2019, 11:02 AM.


        New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


        The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

        Comment


        • Originally posted by EW-Matias View Post
          You can modifies a subject's properties with Weaving, but not all subjects have all properties. Solidity/tangibility is a property of Matter. You can't make "Space" more solid because Space has no "solidity" to begin with. That's why Shrink and Grow and Wonderful Machine are listed as Matter spells, even if they allow a Life conjunctional effect to affect living beings, the properties they modify are Material properties, and thus the purview of Matter.

          Now, I admit the shadow spells under Death throw a wrench in this. But they are clear outliers, and at points specifically contradict other parts of the book, and that's why I don't think they should be used as models for other spells. They are, at best, exceptions.
          An outlier, maybe, but the precedent is there because that rote remains. And until errata officially restructures or removes the rote that set that precedent, I can only assume it was intended. I always interpreted the "soilds" listed under matter's purview just a way of filling out the list. Solids, liquids, gasses, the states of matter, not as a method of saying, "Only this arcana can make things solid."

          On second thought...honestly, I was pretty excited to find Mage. It looked like exactly what I was looking for in a magic system, flexibility, creativity, symbolism, and horror. But the more I look it at, the more I see how flawed it is. The rules, the most important ones regarding how magic works are vague, an unhelpful. Especially the practices which literally define what you can and cannot do. The example rotes either contradict the rules or imply that there's more to the rules that were left out. The people on this board are helpful, but at the same time even after years of exposure to the material you all seem to have adopted your own ideas of how the rules work, going so far as to either outright ignore what doesn't make sense to support your view of how it works, or use previously published material intended for an older edition to fill in the blanks. Neither of which is a really satisfying solution when someone like me just has the two core books for this edition and is trying to learn without needing to buy the backlog of old books to gain understanding.

          I honestly kinda think I'm done with Mage. Its got some lovely ideas, but it's too fragmented and vague. I'll be keeping my eyes on it to see if any future books improve it, but I think I'm gonna step away and look into other options. Ciao guys, was lovely.

          Comment


          • I do believe those Shadow spells were a big mistake, because as you say they do muddy things in a big way. But also believe it is there where the problem begins and ends, so as I said, you can treat them as exceptions and let that be.

            I do not believe the Practices to be so vague, though. They are actually quite specific. We do have a lot of discussions about the metaphysics the game implies, but usually revolves more around the different natures of the different Arcana than around the Practices themselves. But more importantly, that is by design. If the book gave you all the answers it would defeat the purpose, your characters coming up with their own theories and testing them out is the intended way to play,

            Comment


            • Considering how the scope of magic is, well, infinite, I find it admirable how clearly and concisely that was translated both mechanically and thematically. Its a lot easier to understand than first edition, fascinating in many ways, such as how it uses yantras to give benefit for good roleplaying or how Wisdom de-incentivizes murderhobos while seeding plot hooks via Acts of Hubris and Paradox.

              As much as I really enjoy MtAs, there was certainly an entry barrier trying to wrap your head around your personal paradigm (I need to see if this is still the case in recent editions) and what you could do at each dot. But Awakening provides a wonderful toolkit that is faster to understand and makes it easier to create an effect on the fly. It must have been a herculean challenge to create and fine tune, but I find their current design to be very elegant.

              Sure, the solid shadow thing can be confusing, but there will always be edge cases. Overall I feel the good far outweighs the bad.
              Last edited by KaiserAfini; 09-09-2019, 07:07 PM.


              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

              Comment


              • Heinzelmann's Trods (Matter ••)
                Practice: Ruling
                Primary Factor: Duration
                Withstand: N/A
                Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Survival

                This wraps a target in a thin layer of magic that distorts and moves matter around them, allowing them to traverse it without disturbing it. They can swim up buildings, dangle down from ceilings, "phase" through doors and even dive through the earth.

                Should duration expire while they are moving through matter, the target becomes harmlessly stuck. Some mages take advantage of this effect by casting the spell in an area around themselves, allowing them to immobilize their foes by pulling them into the floor or walls.

                This spell does not provide air, so targets who don't make preparations will need to resurface from time to time.

                Its said an Arrow improvised this rote while dealing with an extremely mischievous house kobolt, who moved about in a similar manner. Modern Talons utilize it in a plethora of ways, such as moving troops through dangerous terrain without showing outward signs, infiltration (tunnels make too much noise to dig) and setting up strategy meetings in rooms with no doors.


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
                  Heinzelmann's Trods (Matter ••)
                  Practice: Ruling
                  Primary Factor: Duration
                  Withstand: N/A
                  Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Survival

                  This wraps a target in a thin layer of magic that distorts and moves matter around them, allowing them to traverse it without disturbing it. They can swim up buildings, dangle down from ceilings, "phase" through doors and even dive through the earth.

                  Should duration expire while they are moving through matter, the target becomes harmlessly stuck. Some mages take advantage of this effect by casting the spell in an area around themselves, allowing them to immobilize their foes by pulling them into the floor or walls.

                  This spell does not provide air, so targets who don't make preparations will need to resurface from time to time.

                  Its said an Arrow improvised this rote while dealing with an extremely mischievous house kobolt, who moved about in a similar manner. Modern Talons utilize it in a plethora of ways, such as moving troops through dangerous terrain without showing outward signs, infiltration (tunnels make too much noise to dig) and setting up strategy meetings in rooms with no doors.
                  Masterpiece. Very great, i love it!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
                    Heinzelmann's Trods (Matter ••)
                    Practice: Ruling
                    Primary Factor: Duration
                    Withstand: N/A
                    Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Survival

                    This wraps a target in a thin layer of magic that distorts and moves matter around them, allowing them to traverse it without disturbing it. They can swim up buildings, dangle down from ceilings, "phase" through doors and even dive through the earth.

                    Should duration expire while they are moving through matter, the target becomes harmlessly stuck. Some mages take advantage of this effect by casting the spell in an area around themselves, allowing them to immobilize their foes by pulling them into the floor or walls.

                    This spell does not provide air, so targets who don't make preparations will need to resurface from time to time.

                    Its said an Arrow improvised this rote while dealing with an extremely mischievous house kobolt, who moved about in a similar manner. Modern Talons utilize it in a plethora of ways, such as moving troops through dangerous terrain without showing outward signs, infiltration (tunnels make too much noise to dig) and setting up strategy meetings in rooms with no doors.
                    Seems like a Weaving effect to me. I would also probably try to start from a simpler base and get to this point by adding Reach,

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by EW-Matias View Post
                      Seems like a Weaving effect to me. I would also probably try to start from a simpler base and get to this point by adding Reach,
                      I think I see why it would look like Weaving, but this spell is actually a variation of Shaping. But rather than targeting the object to do complex changes, you keep the alteration magic close to a person, doing minimal distortions on nearby objects to let them move as they please. When they are done, it puts things back how they were, leaving no evidence of their passing. It doesn't change the properties of matter, it simply moves it unnaturally.

                      What effects did you mean should be a Reach effect ? The immobilization one ? That was just an observation on a fun application you could get by casting it as an AoE around a user. You lose the ability to affect multiple targets, but the one person who gets the effect gains access to some fun trickery. Since its symbolically simpler than many of Shaping's effects (no complex sculpting, no damaging objects, etc), I didn't think it needed Reach.
                      Last edited by KaiserAfini; 09-11-2019, 10:54 AM.


                      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The Throne View Post
                        Masterpiece. Very great, i love it!
                        Thank you, glad you liked it. I thought it could add to the ghostly feel of the Moros, while having some fun espionage applications.


                        New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                        The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

                        Comment


                        • Shaping needs a Reach to affect solid objects and definitely doesn't allow you to "phase" through a door. The effect might be localized, but the changes aren't small at all. To accomplish what you describe, like phasing and diving into the Earth, you are not just displacing Matter. You need to seriously alter the either substances' or your own body's physical properties, and to me that makes it a Weaving effect.

                          A Shaping-like effect may allow you to burrow like a mole, leaving tunnels, handholds and holes behind. But making the objects reconfigure themselves to be undisturbed afterwards would require a separate instance of the same effect (meaning, a different spell to clean up after you) or it should be accomplished as I said above by changing the objects poperties so they do it on their own, like like a liquid or memory foam would do, making this a Weaving effect.

                          Edit: Thinking a bit more, maybe the reconfigurations COULD be achieved by a Reach.
                          Last edited by EW-Matias; 09-11-2019, 11:16 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
                            Heinzelmann's Trods (Matter ••)
                            Practice: Ruling
                            Primary Factor: Duration
                            Withstand: N/A
                            Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Survival

                            This wraps a target in a thin layer of magic that distorts and moves matter around them, allowing them to traverse it without disturbing it. They can swim up buildings, dangle down from ceilings, "phase" through doors and even dive through the earth.

                            Should duration expire while they are moving through matter, the target becomes harmlessly stuck. Some mages take advantage of this effect by casting the spell in an area around themselves, allowing them to immobilize their foes by pulling them into the floor or walls.

                            This spell does not provide air, so targets who don't make preparations will need to resurface from time to time.

                            Its said an Arrow improvised this rote while dealing with an extremely mischievous house kobolt, who moved about in a similar manner. Modern Talons utilize it in a plethora of ways, such as moving troops through dangerous terrain without showing outward signs, infiltration (tunnels make too much noise to dig) and setting up strategy meetings in rooms with no doors.
                            As written, I do not feel like this is a Ruling effect, and I'm skeptical that allowing a living being to phase through matter is even a Matter effect (at least on its own).

                            I think something like this would be more in line with what Ruling can accomplish:

                            Heinzelmann's Trods (Matter ••)
                            Practice: Ruling
                            Primary Factor: Duration
                            Cost: 1 Mana
                            Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Survival

                            Fluids (gases, liquids, and particulate matter such as dust or loose sand) part at your approach and reform behind you to allow passage. This spell only affects fluids in the direction of motion, leaving undisturbed anything tangential to your path. This spell parts air (and all the oxygen contained therein) as readily as any other fluid, and so Mages planning on extended use of this spell should prepare accordingly.
                            +1 Reach: This spell affects solids.
                            +1 Reach: The Mage may except one type of Matter from the effects of this spell (usually oxygen).



                            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                            • Wand of many secrets(Prime ••)
                              Practice: veiling
                              Primary Factor: Potency
                              Cost:1 mana
                              This spell enchants a yantra warding the next potency spells cast using it from detection. Passive abilities (such as Peripheral Mage Sight) automatically fail to detect the veiled spells, while active attempts provoke a Clash of Wills. As long as the spell’s Duration lasts, the yantras wielder may spend one point of Mana at any time to “recharge” this effect, refreshing the veiling quality on an additional number of spells equal to the spell’s Potency.
                              Last edited by WalkingEye; 09-11-2019, 11:33 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WalkingEye View Post
                                Wand of many secrets(Prime ••)
                                Practice: veiling
                                Primary Factor: Potency
                                Cost:1 mana
                                This spell enchants a yantra warding the next potency spells cast using it from detection. Passive abilities (such as Peripheral Mage Sight) automatically fail to detect the veiled spells, while active attempts provoke a Clash of Wills. As long as the spell’s Duration lasts, the yantras wielder may spend one point of Mana at any time to “recharge” this effect, refreshing the veiling quality on an additional number of spells equal to the spell’s Potency.
                                This is flat out better than Supernal Veil. I would handle this same idea by Imbuing the Yantra with Supernal Veil.

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