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  • Probably Ruling, because you aren't alterning the properties of the personal time of the target, you are just making them unnaturally good at reading the flow of battle. Just made the updates.


    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists
    The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate

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    • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
      That is a pretty cool spell, but I believe it can also be cast with a Pattering of Time. Like an extreme version of Choose The Thread, which can then be predictable and contradictorily resolved akin to how Prophecy rearranges the future.
      Absolutely, I just wanted to showcase my thoughts on Fate doing something beyond dice manipulation, oaths, and "event happens".

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      • Can I get some help with a template for creative thaumaturgy spells that use Death to end ongoing processes ("endings" purview)? The ending of the process should be a Lasting effect. The spell should target an entity engaged in the process since I don't think it's usually possible to target a process with a spell.

        Examples of effects that spells from this template should be able to achieve:
        1. ​End the continuous firing of an automatic weapon. It will begin firing again only if the gunner again pulls the trigger.
        2. End a single instance of a drunk husband's battering of his wife. He goes to sleep it off, but may start another domestic disturbance later.
        3. End the flight of an airplane in midair. The engines shut off and the plane begins losing altitude, but the pilots may re-engage the engine and resume the flight.
        4. End the burning of a fire in a hearth. The fire goes out, but anyone can rekindle it.
        5. End a gambler's lucky streak at the craps table. She loses her next roll, but might start another lucky streak on the roll after that.
        I think these are Death Compelling or Ruling (depending on how natural it would be for the process to stop as mandated by the spell), Potency primary, and Withstood. Right or wrong?

        "Ending" is tricky for me because it's binary. Something ends or it doesn't, Ended things don't spontaneously begin again; ending something is not the same as temporarily suppressing it. It's a case where +2 reach for Lasting doesn't make sense to me. I feel like a comparable example is Life's Purge Illness, which has the Lasting effect of ending a disease in the subject without using extra Reach.

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        • Originally posted by galivet View Post
          Can I get some help with a template for creative thaumaturgy spells that use Death to end ongoing processes ("endings" purview)? The ending of the process should be a Lasting effect. The spell should target an entity engaged in the process since I don't think it's usually possible to target a process with a spell.

          Examples of effects that spells from this template should be able to achieve:
          1. ​End the continuous firing of an automatic weapon. It will begin firing again only if the gunner again pulls the trigger.
          2. End a single instance of a drunk husband's battering of his wife. He goes to sleep it off, but may start another domestic disturbance later.
          3. End the flight of an airplane in midair. The engines shut off and the plane begins losing altitude, but the pilots may re-engage the engine and resume the flight.
          4. End the burning of a fire in a hearth. The fire goes out, but anyone can rekindle it.
          5. End a gambler's lucky streak at the craps table. She loses her next roll, but might start another lucky streak on the roll after that.
          I think these are Death Compelling or Ruling (depending on how natural it would be for the process to stop as mandated by the spell), Potency primary, and Withstood. Right or wrong?

          "Ending" is tricky for me because it's binary. Something ends or it doesn't, Ended things don't spontaneously begin again; ending something is not the same as temporarily suppressing it. It's a case where +2 reach for Lasting doesn't make sense to me. I feel like a comparable example is Life's Purge Illness, which has the Lasting effect of ending a disease in the subject without using extra Reach.
          You wouldn't end the husband from battering their wife, but you could target whatever is the impetus to do it in the first place, their rage, or intoxication, etc which would probably end it. The others are valid. I'd look to the general spell considerations to determine the Practice. I wouldn't worry about whether or not they're Lasting, because typically they will be simply because whatever you target gets shut off.

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          • Originally posted by galivet View Post
            "Ending" is tricky for me because it's binary. Something ends or it doesn't, Ended things don't spontaneously begin again; ending something is not the same as temporarily suppressing it. It's a case where +2 reach for Lasting doesn't make sense to me. I feel like a comparable example is Life's Purge Illness, which has the Lasting effect of ending a disease in the subject without using extra Reach.
            Whether something is Lasting or not seems to be mostly tied to how natural it is for something to change in such a way, which corresponds to the Compelling->Ruling->Weaving->Patterning/Unravelling->Making/Unmaking scale that progresses from introducing natural changes to unnatural changes to the subject. If you only need Compelling or Ruling to make something end, then it will almost definitely be Lasting, while things that require a four or five dot Practice will generally not be Lasting.
            Take a look at the various Unmaking spells. Many of them aren't Lasting because it's not natural for the subject to change in such a way. The fact that the subject literally doesn't exist during the duration of these spells doesn't factor into it. For the same reason, a spell that ends something that does not naturally end won't be Lasting. The fact that it has ended shouldn't factor into it.

            Now this isn't really relevant for any of your examples or what I think you're looking for, but it's worth keeping in mind and may help you understand what determines whether a spell is Lasting or not.
            (Another way of thinking about it is whether a result is a direct spell effect or a consequence of the spell effect. Low dot Practices often uses spells that exert a force onto the subject, and the consequence of that force being exerted is naturally Lasting, while high dot Practices more often introduce the change directly into the subject, meaning the change ends with the spell. Of course, these are common patterns, not rules. Exceptions exists, such as Patterning/Unravelling direct damage spells. They're Lasting because being damaged is a consequence of the spell damaging you.)


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            • Thanks for the input folks.

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              • Banish Hope (Death •••)

                Practice: Perfecting (Absence)
                Primary Factor: Potency
                Withstand: Resolve

                A Disciple of Death can widen the cracks of doubt in his opponents' confidence into a yawning abyss of hopelessness. Defeat seems inevitable: there is no hope of victory, no possibility of escape, and no point to continuing on.

                In combat, the target surrenders immediately if that is a possibility (see the optional rules for surrendering). Otherwise the target takes no actions in combat for the duration of the spell and does not apply his Defense against incoming attacks -- he merely waits for his inevitable defeat to play out. This spell has no effect on opponents who do not experience hope such as reanimated undead, golems, and other mindless constructs.

                False Vigor (Death ••)

                Practice: Veiling (Enervation)
                Primary Factor: Duration
                Withstand: Composure (when target is unwilling)

                Sleepiness, hunger, and thirst communicate the body's needs to the mind. By veiling those message, the mage ensures that the target feels fully satiated: never the least bit hungry, thirsty, or tired. She remains deaf to her stomach's rumbling, insensate to her parched mouth, and oblivious her growing forgetfulness and clumsiness.

                The target may force herself to continue eating, drinking, and sleeping as normal by expending one Willpower point per day. Targets with the Gluttony vice may eat, drink, and sleep without expending Willpower, but do not regain any Willpower from exercising that vice.

                A foolish person effected by this spell might merrily go along without meeting her basic needs until she drops dead of thirst or goes insane from lack of sleep a few days after the spell takes effect (assuming sufficient Duration). A malicious mage might convince the target that he is blessing her with a long-lasting Ennervation Shielding effect when in fact he has provided only the illusion of such an effect.

                Vanish (Death •••)

                Practice: Weaving (Absence)
                Primary Factor: Duration
                Withstand: Resolve (if target is unwilling)

                Anything effected by this spell is just... gone. Absent. Missing. Lost, and unable to be found for the Duration of the spell. Two socks go into the dryer, one sock comes out.

                Mechanically this functions almost identically to Temporal Stutter (without the Space reach option); however the target does continue to exist in the timeline throughout the duration of the spell. Spells may still act on the target of Vanish at Sympathetic Range. Magical attempts to locate the spell's target may reveal that she/it does not occupy any location whatsoever. If the target is sentient, the experience of being conscious while being absent from all locations strains her sanity; the target must succeed in a Resolve + Composure check every 24 hours she is Vanished or suffer an appropriate persistent mental condition.

                +1 Reach: A sentient target is absent from themselves as well, being functionally unconscious for the Duration of the spell. This negates the need for the periodic check to avoid a persistent mental condition.

                +1 Reach: Potency replaces the the original Sympathetic Withstand if the Potency value is higher than the regular Sympathetic Withstand, or adds the usual +1 to Withstand if it isn’t
                Last edited by galivet; 02-09-2020, 01:04 PM. Reason: Modified Vanish's interaction with sympathetic casting per Mrmdubois's comment below.

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                • The Sympathy Withstand thing is a bit odd. There’s going to be Sympathetic Withstand anyway just because of the nature of Sympathy.

                  Instead I’d put it as a Reach that Potency replaces the the original Sympathetic Withstand if the Potency value is higher than the regular Sympathetic Withstand, or adds the usual +1 to Withstand if it isn’t.

                  Very cool stuff though.

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                  • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    The Sympathy Withstand thing is a bit odd. There’s going to be Sympathetic Withstand anyway just because of the nature of Sympathy.
                    Roger that.

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                    • Concealed Void (Death ••)

                      Practice: Veiling (Absence)
                      Primary Factor: Duration

                      The target of this spell seems occupied or whole when it is in fact empty or incomplete. An empty mailbox seems full of mail. A catwalk with a missing span seem unbroken. An empty bar seems packed with people. A car missing its wheels seems ready to drive. An unoccupied stretch of subway track seems to be occupied by a train (to the limit of Scale).

                      The illusion created by this spell holds up superficially to all mundane perceptions. Brush the mail with your fingers and you'll feel paper, but try and remove a letter and it vanishes. Put your face next to the car's wheels and you'll smell rubber, but try and drive it and you'll go nowhere. Filling the void occupied by the illusion suppresses the illusion. For the instant when a person is tumbling down towards the rails, it's obvious that there's no train sitting on them.

                      Supernatural attempts to pierce the illusion provoke a Clash of Wills.


                      The Missing Pieces (Death •)

                      Practice: Knowing (Absence)
                      Primary Factor: Potency

                      A mage can use this spell to learn what is missing from a target object or location. The caster may receive an answer to one question about what is missing per level of Potency. The answers always pertain to missing item(s) as they were when they occupied the target object or location from which they are now absent (i.e. this spell cannot reveal the current location or condition of the missing object).

                      For example, this spell may reveal that a burgled vault is missing a grimoire, and even what sort of rotes the grimoire contained, but cannot reveal that the stolen grimoire now lies in ashes in a banisher's back yard.


                      Prison Without Walls (Death ••)

                      Practice: Ruling (Absence)
                      Primary Factor: Duration
                      Withstand: Resolve

                      Under the effects of this spell, the subject cannot bear to leave his current location. He feels tied to it like a ghost to an anchor. If forcibly removed from the location, the subject will strive to return to it by any reasonably safe means.


                      Conclusion Conclusion (Death •)

                      Practice: Knowing (Endings)
                      Primary Factor: Potency

                      This spell grants the caster the knowledge of what may end the target phenomenon. For each level of Potency, she comes to know one way to bring about its ending (Storyteller's discretion about which options she discovers).

                      For example, by using this spell with Potency 3 on a ticking time bomb, a mage learns that she can end the process of the bomb's detonation by clipping the blue wire, clipping the red wire, or by reducing the bomb's temperature below 300 degrees Fahrenheit.

                      + 1 Reach: The caster may "spend" a level of Potency to learn the general nature of the ending produced by one of the methods learned through this spell. To continue the example above, the mage might learn that clipping the blue wire disarms the bomb while either clipping the red wire or freezing the bomb cause it to explode.

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                      • These rock.

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                        • The third feels like a bit a stretch to me. Would make more sense if it would force people to leave the area instead of stay. Though I guess it works since it's kinda like a ghost anchor, maybe.

                          The other ones are pretty cool.

                          Isolation (Space 4)
                          Practice: Unraveling
                          Primary Factor: Potency

                          The spell assaults the subjects abillity to interact with their surroundings. Whenever they try to touch or grab something it always appears to slip out of reach moving further away the closer the subject moves towards it. To outside observers it appears as if the subject was moving but not getting anywhere.

                          Portentuos Moment (Fate 2)
                          Practice: Rulling
                          Primary Factor: Duration

                          Magic rituals in stories always take place during mystical moments. On the night of the blood moon when the clock strikes midnight or on the day of the solitice after the rooster cries three times. Waiting for these events to happen or trying to engineer them manually can be a hassle but a bit of magic can arrange thing just enough to aid other spellcasting. This spell can create a enviromental yantra that aids a specific spell giving a +1 bonus to the spellcasting roll. The spell must be chosen when casting takes place and the entire spellcasting process must take place while this spell is active.

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                          • Mine Soul Stone (Death ••)

                            Practice: Ruling (Souls)
                            Primary Factor: Potency
                            Withstand: Composure

                            This spell enables the caster to create a soul stone using the soul of the spell's subject. As with the process by which a mage normally creates a soul stone, the spell requires an object of size up to 2 to house the fragment of the subject's soul and the expenditure of a Willpower dot by the spell's caster. The soul stone created by this spell functions equivalently in all respects to one created by the subject from her own soul (e.g. for sympathetic magic targeting the subject).

                            At the end of the spell's duration, the object housing the soul fragment ceases to be a soul stone (but is not destroyed) and the caster regains the spent Willpower dot. Destroying the object housing the soul fragment ends the spell immediately.

                            Use of this spell is not intrinsically an Act of Hubris, but may constitute an Act of Hubris at the Storyteller's discretion. Mining a temporary soul stone from a mortal enemy to use for sympathetic casting? Probably not an Act of Hubris. Casting it on herself with Indefinite Duration? Definitely an Act of Hubris.

                            Soul Shaping (Death •••)

                            Practice: Weaving (Souls)
                            Primary Factor: Duration

                            To join a Legacy is to reshape one's soul by changing one's Gnosis. A Disciple of Death can contort her soul to match the shape of member of a specific legacy without changing her Gnosis and thereby gain a few of the benefits of belonging to that legacy.

                            The mage must have ready an example of the form into which she wishes to sculpt her soul, which can be the soul or a soul stone from a member of that legacy.

                            For the duration of this spell, the mage may utilize the legacy's oblations (although still limited to dots in the legacy's Ruling Arcanum of mana per day way from a Hallow). She also serves as a sympathetic Yantra worth +2 dice for all members, daimonomika, and soul stones of the legacy. Another mage may join the legacy through study of the caster's soul or soul stones. The caster gains none of the other benefits of belonging to the legacy.

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                            • Originally posted by galivet View Post
                              Mine Soul Stone (Death ••)

                              Practice: Ruling (Souls)
                              Primary Factor: Potency
                              Withstand: Composure

                              This spell enables the caster to create a soul stone using the soul of the spell's subject. As with the process by which a mage normally creates a soul stone, the spell requires an object of size up to 2 to house the fragment of the subject's soul and the expenditure of a Willpower dot by the spell's caster. The soul stone created by this spell functions equivalently in all respects to one created by the subject from her own soul (e.g. for sympathetic magic targeting the subject).

                              At the end of the spell's duration, the object housing the soul fragment ceases to be a soul stone (but is not destroyed) and the caster regains the spent Willpower dot. Destroying the object housing the soul fragment ends the spell immediately.

                              Use of this spell is not intrinsically an Act of Hubris, but may constitute an Act of Hubris at the Storyteller's discretion. Mining a temporary soul stone from a mortal enemy to use for sympathetic casting? Probably not an Act of Hubris. Casting it on herself with Indefinite Duration? Definitely an Act of Hubris.

                              Soul Shaping (Death •••)

                              Practice: Weaving (Souls)
                              Primary Factor: Duration

                              To join a Legacy is to reshape one's soul by changing one's Gnosis. A Disciple of Death can contort her soul to match the shape of member of a specific legacy without changing her Gnosis and thereby gain a few of the benefits of belonging to that legacy.

                              The mage must have ready an example of the form into which she wishes to sculpt her soul, which can be the soul or a soul stone from a member of that legacy.

                              For the duration of this spell, the mage may utilize the legacy's oblations (although still limited to dots in the legacy's Ruling Arcanum of mana per day way from a Hallow). She also serves as a sympathetic Yantra worth +2 dice for all members, daimonomika, and soul stones of the legacy. Another mage may join the legacy through study of the caster's soul or soul stones. The caster gains none of the other benefits of belonging to the legacy.

                              Nice, nice, nice. Though I'm not sure the first spell is applicable without some form of consent. Consent can be coerced of course. The main thing is that I'm pretty sure Soul Stones can only be created via an act of "free" will.

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                              • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post


                                Nice, nice, nice. Though I'm not sure the first spell is applicable without some form of consent. Consent can be coerced of course. The main thing is that I'm pretty sure Soul Stones can only be created via an act of "free" will.

                                Possibly; per the definition in the lexicon. My intuition is that they're made voluntarily in the overwhelmingly common case, but the guy capable of ripping your soul from your body entirely and putting it in a jar is indeed also capable of breaking off a fragment of your soul and putting it in a rock or whatever. Souls are subject to other unusual exceptions from the magic rules though, so who knows. ST discretion.

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