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  • With all that is being said, I altered the spell to use a Making of Fate instead. However, now I am very curious about Scriptorian's inquiry on whether granting Shadow Occultist abilities being viable. Its too bad there aren't Astral rites as well, I am curious what shape that would take.



    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
    The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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    • There’s always the option of… just… having a spirit Ride/Possess/Claim the poor sucker, then chasing the spirit away, then persuading another (or the same) spirit to do the transgressive exchange that instills Shadow Occultism. All with judicious uses of common Spirit spells.

      Hey, no one said we had to do it in a single go, right?

      Edit;
      Even better — have your Familiar spirit as the Occultist’s patron. Or the patron of several Occultists. You now have a powder keg of a henchman, or two, or dozen.
      Last edited by 21C Hermit; 03-09-2022, 08:11 PM.


      MtAw Homebrew:
      Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
      New 2E Legacies, expanded

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      • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
        With all that is being said, I altered the spell to use a Making of Fate instead. However, now I am very curious about Scriptorian's inquiry on whether granting Shadow Occultist abilities being viable. Its too bad there aren't Astral rites as well, I am curious what shape that would take.
        Practitioners of Obcasus Rites are extremely niche, being a subset of a group outnumbered by mages. The Rites require consecrated spaces to perform and involve a fairly hefty amount of trappings in the form of props and participants, especially at higher tiers.

        Strictly speaking, there's no Underworld rites, either — again, Ceremonies aren't intrinsically tied to the energies of death.

        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
        You said anyone with the right connection to the Shadow can use Rites, would it not make sense that mages lack that connection and cannot create it without being archmasters?
        Admittedly this is plugging information from two different Night Horrors books into each other, but:

        The Fault of the Enraptured Thyrsus known as Spiral establishes that Awakened magic is capable of inducing spirits to Claim people, albeit this is framed in terms of Claimed coming from spirits possessing people for long enough (and Spiral doesn't have any special spell or Dread Power to enable this — she's got Bind Spirit as a Praxis and learned how to make herself Hive-Claimed in exchange for giving up her sympathetic name to "something horrific from the deep Shadow"). The same section also notes that few spirits can normally start that process (and, admittedly, when Possession normally only lasts a scene and Awakened magic allows it to last much longer, the distinction between Claim and indefinite Possession is academic in many cases), which would seem likely to indicate that in this case, it's a matter of knowing that form of Manifestation is possible and how it occurs.

        Shadow Occultists are made when a spirit can be persuaded to pour its Essence into a human who has been Ridden or Claimed to give them some of its own Influence and the capacity to pick up more. The process entails at least one breaking point and can incur several more down the line. As a traumatic and niche application of spiritual power, it's likewise probably not so much impossible to induce a spirit to perform as it is necessary to know about in the first place.

        This isn't quite like trying to create Sin-Eaters by inflating a ghost's Rank and giving it the Bargain (for which, as with many other supernatural agreements, very probably entails both parties forge the connection of their own free will) — it's likely more akin to how spirits can be persuaded to form totem bonds without any sort of rite, i.e. it's a weird thing spirits do that's beyond the scope of Mage's corebook to address as the extended look at spirit ecology Werewolf deals with, but it's not wholly beyond the reach of the Arcana.

        That said, while it's theoretically within the capabilities of Traveler Arcana to engineer the sort of connection necessary to be able to use Pack Rites without being a werewolf or Wolf-Blooded, bestowing Rites themselves is in an even weirder split-unavailability than Ceremonies — rites draw on otherworldy agreements that underpin the landscape of the Shadow, which means we run afoul of the aforementioned need for specific knowledge to be able to impart knowledge of a rite beyond the prosaic description of the necessary symbolism.
        Last edited by Satchel; 03-09-2022, 08:39 PM.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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        • Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
          This is a spell I've been considering for a while. I'm not entirely certain about it, whether it should require a point of Mana, etc. But, this is what I have:

          Hasten Symbolism (Time •••)
          Practice: Perfecting
          Primary Factor: Duration
          Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Expression, Occult

          The mage enhances the target's ability to conceptualize the symbols of magical power, condensing what would take multiple moments into a single, graceful movement. The next time the target casts a spell during this spell's Duration, the target may utilize an additional number of Yantras equal to this spell's Potency in the same reflexive action. This does not affect Yantras that normally require more than a reflexive action to employ (such as High Speech or Runes), nor does it increase the Gnosis-derived number of Yantras the target may access.

          +1 Reach: The target can use the High Speech Yantra as a reflexive action.
          +1 Reach: Add this spell's Potency to the target's Gnosis for the purpose of determining how long it takes to draw runes.
          +1 Reach, +1 Mana: The target benefits from this spell's effects on a number of spells equal to Potency.
          Would it work for ritually cast spells or just quick casting?

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          • Originally posted by werikscs View Post

            Would it work for ritually cast spells or just quick casting?
            My intent was for it to apply to instant casting, since ritual spells take so long that except at the highest tiers of Gnosis, reflexive actions are a non-issue. I don't see any problems with letting it apply to rituals though, since it does nothing to reduce their overall casting time.

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            • That is a very lucky find, I have been looking for that spell's reference for a while. I think the ability to allow the spell to act multiple times could just be the result of adding Potency, rather than requiring a Reach and a mana.


              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
              The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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              • Co-Temperus (Time ••••)
                Mana Cost:
                1
                Practice: Patterning
                Primary Factor: Potency
                Suggested Rote Skills: Larceny, Politics, Subterfuge
                By making the present as indeterminable as the future, this spell can allow the subject to participate in multiple ‘potential presents’ simultaneously. The subject splits into one additional version of themselves per Potency. This is not a true division of the subject, but instead is the subject existing in multiple timelines. They share a single Willpower and Mana pool, but are otherwise treated as separate. At the beginning of the subject’s turn, each version of themselves may perform their actions as normal. However, apply the results of only one version of the subject on the world around them, and each version of the subject completely ignores what the others do (sometimes even occupying the same space). For instance, if one version of the subject opens a door and goes through it, all other versions of the subject still have to open the door and walk through it. If at the end of the turn the subject chooses to apply the changes of another version of themselves who did not open the door on the world, then the door would be closed at the end of the turn (having never been opened). Any supernatural powers that affect one or more versions of the subject affects all of them. When the spell ends or is canceled, only one version of the subject sticks around, and that version suffers all of the damage, conditions and tilts suffered by all other versions of themselves, but also gains all knowledge and experiences from the discarded versions of themselves.
                Add Mind (••): The different versions of the subject may communicate telepathically.
                +1 Reach: The different versions of the subject are more insulated from each other. When one or more of them is affected by a supernatural power, then they may roll a Clash of Wills to keep all other versions from themselves from being equally affected.
                +1 Reach: The version of the subject that remains after the spell expires gains the worst damage from all versions of themselves, instead of all of it.
                +3 Reach: When the spell expires, the damage, conditions and tilts from the discarded versions of the subject is not applied to the subject.
                Note: A Space •••• equivalent of this spell exists, but relies on a duplication of the character’s spatial presence instead of timelines.
                If at the end of the turn the subject chooses to apply the changes of another version of themselves who did not open the door on the world, then the door would be closed at the end of the turn (having never been opened).
                In this example, if the versions do not communicate with each other, how would one version know that in another version, the door was not opened?

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                • Originally posted by werikscs View Post



                  In this example, if the versions do not communicate with each other, how would one version know that in another version, the door was not opened?

                  I imagine they could talk via a phone if the caster is short on spell control. Some other options include using Oaths Fulfilled to let the other versions know, using a Unveiling of Forces to listen to the sound each make, creating an improvised radio system. Familiars can be used as intermediaries and scrying windows are always useful. But I feel you might be looking for something more along the line of Converging Potentiality


                  New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                  The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                  The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                  Comment


                  • How hard would it be to make yourself into a pseudo-Hive Souled? Life 5 with a Mind component to create the additional bodies that you're puppetting, plus One Mind Two Thoughts to make simultaneous actions between all bodies?

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                    • Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                      How hard would it be to make yourself into a pseudo-Hive Souled? Life 5 with a Mind component to create the additional bodies that you're puppeteering, plus One Mind Two Thoughts to make simultaneous actions between all bodies?

                      That might work, another way could be if they utilize a Patterning of Life and Mind to transform the subject into a biomass manipulating virus with a shared Oneiros. The virus would have a severity of Potency and would rewrite the thought processes of the infected in order to match those of the original host. When the virus reproduces and infects someone else, the host gains one more body to act as an additional agent. The you could use a separate Making of Life to create a central processing unit biocomputer, which would draw information in, come to some conclusions and then feed it as surface thoughts to the Oneiros. Think of it as something similar to how the infected hive mind works in Prototype.


                      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                      The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post


                        That might work, another way could be if they utilize a Patterning of Life and Mind to transform the subject into a biomass manipulating virus with a shared Oneiros. The virus would have a severity of Potency and would rewrite the thought processes of the infected in order to match those of the original host. When the virus reproduces and infects someone else, the host gains one more body to act as an additional agent. The you could use a separate Making of Life to create a central processing unit biocomputer, which would draw information in, come to some conclusions and then feed it as surface thoughts to the Oneiros. Think of it as something similar to how the infected hive mind works in Prototype.
                        Oh jeez, I was just thinking of ways to lead a double life. Like, if you have a date to keep but need to do some legwork for the local Hierarch. You went right for the bioweapon!

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                        • Originally posted by Cauthon View Post

                          Oh jeez, I was just thinking of ways to lead a double life. Like, if you have a date to keep but need to do some legwork for the local Hierarch. You went right for the bioweapon!
                          I thought you wanted to create an antagonist that could be eerily good at being in multiple places at once. But for leading a double life, I think your approach sounds pretty sensible. The key challenge is real time updates and multitasking. Because otherwise you could make, for example, a lifelike Golem and animate it with a Mind copy of the original, effectively an ushabti. The main issue would be that, at some point you would need to download the new memories and trust the choices they made.


                          New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                          The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                          The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post

                            I thought you wanted to create an antagonist that could be eerily good at being in multiple places at once. But for leading a double life, I think your approach sounds pretty sensible. The key challenge is real time updates and multitasking. Because otherwise you could make, for example, a lifelike Golem and animate it with a Mind copy of the original, effectively an ushabti. The main issue would be that, at some point you would need to download the new memories and trust the choices they made.
                            It seems like a scaled down version of 1e's Ochema, so maybe something along those lines? Both are passively aware of what happens to one another, but the main body needs to concentrate to notice any emotional bleed from the duplicate?

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                            • Originally posted by Cauthon View Post

                              It seems like a scaled down version of 1e's Ochema, so maybe something along those lines? Both are passively aware of what happens to one another, but the main body needs to concentrate to notice any emotional bleed from the duplicate?
                              In that case, you might want to look at the Converging Potentiality spell. Creating discount Ochema was the intention when designing it.


                              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                              The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                              Comment


                              • Nihilum AKA Nothing After Nothing Crawled Into The World (Prime •••••, Befouled)
                                Practice: Making
                                Primary Factor: Potency
                                Suggested Rote Skills: Occult, Intimidation, Expression
                                Withstood: Resolve
                                Cost: 1 Mana

                                Your belief in the Supernal is distorted and distant, like a repressed memory of something unspeakable. You are overwhelmed by a creeping, uncanny sense that nothing is real. Polite and dripping voices infest your Oneiros, whispering insane delusions and empty epiphanies that sound perfectly True. Your Mage Sight becomes a cracked mirror that reflects anti-symbols reveling lethargically in your imprisonment-transcendence.

                                Apathy is love, the future is remembered in prophecy that already happened, all roads lead nowhere and everywhere. You wake up in a cold sweat at 11:59 PM and time has stopped. Lingering nightmares are falling out of your broken soul and filling your bedroom. A long lost friend emerges from an empty corner and reassures you that everything will be wrong.


                                This spell was devised by a Scelestus who wanted to enlighten other Mages about the liberating potential of the Abyss. He theorized that all of Awakened society is ultimately a gilded crib for frightened children who cannot bear to exist in an universe devoid of cosmically-ordained meaning and purpose. This spell forces the target to confront that existential fear by manifesting a reality in which their magic is hollowed out and filled with unreality.

                                In other words, each point of Potency makes the target suffer a Paradox Condition [Mage 2ed Core 116], whose effects and methods of Resolution are designed by the spellcaster. Use the target's Wisdom to determine how long it takes for these Paradox Conditions to lapse on their own.

                                +1 Reach: Whenever someone attempts to Pattern Scour any Paradox Conditions caused by this spell, they must also lose Mana equal to the spell's Potency, or upgrade the Damage into 1 Resistant Aggravated. If the target dies as a result of this Resistant Aggravated Damage, their soul is used as an entrance into reality by an Abyssal Entity with a Rank up to the spellcaster's [Gnosis/2 Rounded Up]. This Abyssal Entity is chosen by the spellcaster when forming the Imago.


                                "I hope you will have a long and happy life, if only so you can realize how stupid and wrong you are."

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