Creative Thaumaturgy: Fallen World Edition

[Tessie]

I actually wrote Patterning in my notes but changed it to Unravelling when posting here since it's based on Life-Force Assault (to the point where I previously had it named Life-Force Drain) and the fact that you basically rip the Vitae from the victim's Pattern.

Now I'm tempted to make a Death/Life vampiric legacy with Attainments based around stealing and using Vitae, who technically aren't Reapers because they're only using the life-force of people instead of souls. (Unless I add something like the Strix Dread Power Soul Bite that farms souls for Vitae.) Definitely a Lich legacy since there's no way they wouldn't have all the upsides of being a ghoul.

[Enlightened_Milkman]

I actually wrote Patterning in my notes but changed it to Unravelling when posting here since it's based on Life-Force Assault (to the point where I previously had it named Life-Force Drain) and the fact that you basically rip the Vitae from the victim's Pattern.

Now I'm tempted to make a Death/Life vampiric legacy with Attainments based around stealing and using Vitae, who technically aren't Reapers because they're only using the life-force of people instead of souls. (Unless I add something like the Strix Dread Power Soul Bite that farms souls for Vitae.) Definitely a Lich legacy since there's no way they wouldn't have all the upsides of being a ghoul.

I'd imagine such a legacy would also be branded left handed fairly quickly. As for vitae I theorize vitae is what is leftover if your manage to perfect blood.

[Tessie]

That's really not a bad idea at all. And yes, they'd definitely be branded Left-Handed even if it's completely possible to take Vitae from willing subjects, from yourself, or even creating it directly with Making. And Liches are listed in the Left-Handed section even though they seem to be somewhat tolerated depending on how their lichdom is sustained.

[Mrmdubois]

This One Thread (Space)
Practice: Knowing
Primary Factor: Potency
Suggested Rote Skills: Empathy, Investigation, Occult

The function of this spell is to glean information about the Sympathetic thread that forms between a Mage and someone else that he's interacting with. By monitoring this he can gain insight into how others look at him adding a dice bonus to his next use of the Empathy skill equal to Potency.

[galivet]

I believe that you could instead have a number of direct questions regarding the relationship answered by the ST equal to Potency. That's both more useful and more inline with other similar powers on record.

[Mrmdubois]

I believe that you could instead have a number of direct questions regarding the relationship answered by the ST equal to Potency. That's both more useful and more inline with other similar powers on record.

It's a narrower application of a regular one dot dice effect, I don't see the problem.

[galivet]

No controversy that the spell is fine as-is so long as the purpose of the Empathy roll is inline with the spell description. Might want to clarify whether the Empathy roll must be made during the spell's Duration. I think that gaining useful knowledge about something is always a Lasting effect.

Another option, you could grant the 9-again effect for all Social skill rolls affecting the subject that are influenced by how the subject sees the caster. 8-again with a Reach. I think that understanding the mutual connection could be just as useful to Subterfuge or Socialize or even Animal Ken if the subject is an animal.

But yeah the effect you described is fine; it's right out of the rules: "The spell grants a one-die bonus or penalty, deals one point of weapon damage, or heals one wound."

[Tessie]

That's starting to encroach on the 3-dot spell Perfect Sympathy.
While Knowing is a great practice, I think you should definitely limit any mechanical benefits from using that Practice aside from purely getting knowledge. Not even Mind Knowing is capable of gaining bonus dice on Empathy and Subterfuge. That's the effect of Telepathy, a Ruling spell. And if Mind has that limit then Knowing on a Sympathetic Connection should really, really not be able to grant bonus dice, imo.

[Mrmdubois]

That's starting to encroach on the 3-dot spell Perfect Sympathy. While Knowing is a great practice, I think you should definitely limit any mechanical benefits from using that Practice aside from purely getting knowledge. Not even Mind Knowing is capable of gaining bonus dice on Empathy and Subterfuge. That's the effect of Telepathy, a Ruling spell. And if Mind has that limit then Knowing on a Sympathetic Connection should really, really not be able to grant bonus dice, imo.

Hence using the bonus dice truck instead of lowering the reroll thresh hold and keeping the skills the spell applies to very limited. Sympathetic threads carry emotional information, and this is supposed to monitor only that information which is pertinent to what's going on between Mage and someone he's interacting with. It being a building block toward Perfect Sympathy is actually a good thing imo since that spell is much more potent and widely applicable.

[galivet]

In my suggestion I compared the spell to Craftsman's Eye, which is a Knowing spell. I feel like "look a tool and completely understand it" is analogous to "look at an interpersonal connection and completely understand it."

As an ST, I would at least allow the deep understanding of the interpersonal connection garnered through the use of this spell to serve as a circumstance bonus to subsequent skill rolls.

Trying to achieve balance between different arcana is... not something that interests me. You can in the right circumstances do things with Spirit 1 applied to matter that Matter can't do without higher-rank practices.

[Tessie]

Hence using the bonus dice truck instead of lowering the reroll thresh hold and keeping the skills the spell applies to very limited. Sympathetic threads carry emotional information, and this is supposed to monitor only that information which is pertinent to what's going on between Mage and someone he's interacting with. It being a building block toward Perfect Sympathy is actually a good thing imo since that spell is much more potent and widely applicable.

I don't agree with the notion that Knowing on a sympathetic connection would grant that much information. The nature of the relationship is a part of the connection, but that's the extent of information you can get. There's a reason you need Perfecting for Perfect Sympathy. And you can still only do it on Strong Connections (and Medium with a Reach).

Trying to achieve balance between different arcana is... not something that interests me. You can in the right circumstances do things with Spirit 1 applied to matter that Matter can't do without higher-rank practices.

However, in this case compare Mind being able to pick the required information straight out of the mind of a person with this application of Space that would pick information from a source that in turn only gets limited information from the person.

Of course, you're all free to disagree and run it however you think is best.

[Mrmdubois]

I don't agree with the notion that Knowing on a sympathetic connection would grant that much information. The nature of the relationship is a part of the connection, but that's the extent of information you can get. There's a reason you need Perfecting for Perfect Sympathy. And you can still only do it on Strong Connections (and Medium with a Reach).

It doesn't grant that much information though, it specifically only grants just enough information for you to get a deeper level of understanding of your relationship to the person you're interacting with without rendering changes on either of you on a fundamental level like Perfect Sympathy. It doesn't even magically grant that information, the magic simply facilitates one particular kind of skill that could grant that kind of information regardless of the use of magic.

[Neros]

Moinen
Really like the idea of exchanging momentums. But why not just make it so they exchange their speed at a rate of Potency x 2 or similar?
I know there are some things about mass, but maybe would have so little effect that making extra rules for it would make the spell much more complicated?

Enlightened_Milkman
I really like your Mana Vine spell, but couldn't you do something similar to an already existing plant? Also, Prime would definatly be needed.

But, a dot 5 spell like this could be made. Maybe where it doesn't have to be near a Hallow. Where it actually generates the mana from absorbing allot of the ambient mana from the world or ley lines. Maybe it could even spread along ley lines.

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New Spells from me

Spider Sense (Life ●)

Practice: Knowing
Primary Factor: Duration
Suggested Rote Skills: Medicine, Survival, Animal Ken

By keeping tap on the adrenalin levels in living beings around her, the subject becomes more aware of those who would bring her harm. The subject gains a bonus to notice dangers like ambushes or someone feeling highly aggressive, equal to the spells Potency. Logically, this spell won’t alert the subject when the beings aren't alive.

+1 Reach: When a fight breaks out, the subject is able to get that extra advantage. If a fight starts while this spell is active, the subject also gains a bonus to Initiative equal to the spells Potency.

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Predator’s Cloak (Life ●●)

Practice: Veiling
Primary Factor: Duration
Suggested Rote Skills: Science, Stealth, Streetwise

The best way to move among the sleeping masses is to not be seen at all. The subject is shrouded from being noticed by living beings and Life magic. Any supernatural effect that would detect her provokes a Clash of Wills.
This spell does not prevent those around her from noticing the effects of the subjects passing. Like speaking, stepping on grass, ect. Which in the case of sleepers, could trigger Dissonannce.

+1 Reach: The target of the spell leaves no scent trail.

NOTE: I am not sure about the Reach. But I really would love more options for the player.

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Live the Other Side (Life ●●●●, Spirit ●●●●)

Practice: Patterning
Primary Factor: Duration
Suggested Rote Skills: Medicine, Athletics, Intimidation
Withstand: Resolve/Rank

The subject is completely turned into a rank 1 spirit and follows all the rules for beings made of ephemera. Essence bleed in the material world,uses essence for sustenance, needs payment for its help, etc.

For Living beings

• Power: Highst of Intelligence, Strength or Presence
• Finesse: Highst of Wits, Dexterity or Manipulation
  Resistance: Highst of Resolve, Stamina or Composure
• Influence: The target gains one Influence chosen by the mage
• Numina: The target gains one Numina chosen by the mage.
• Manifestations: The target gains the Twilight Form Manifestation along with one more Manifestation chosen by the mage.
• Ban & Bane: The Ban and Bane of the subject becomes something appropriate to their personality, wants and fears.
• Skills: Living beings lose their skills and use Power + Finesse instead. If the action they are taking doesn’t match with their “spirit type”, the ST may add penalties.
• Resonant Essence for the subject is dependent on its nature. A human subject is Resonant with humans and mages is Resonant with magic (ST’s discretion).
• A mage that transforms into a spirit loses access to his magic for the duration of the spell.

For Spirits

• Attributes: Divide the spirits Power, Finesse and Resistance among the appropriate Attributes (See above), adding to those that would fit the spirits nature.
• Skills: The spirit gains skills fitting to its nature, were those that suit it most being around 3 or more dots.
• Death: If a spirit is killed while being “alive”, they simply turn back into a spirit when the spell ends.

+1 Reach: The subject gains one additional Numina/Potency.
+1 Reach: The subject gains one additional Influence.
+2 Reach, 1 Mana: The Mage may turn the subject into a Rank 2 spirit and the target adds the spells Potency as a bonus to Power, Finesse and Resistance. The target also gains an additional dot of Influence.
Add Prime ●●●: if the mage is a subject, she will still have access to her Arcana’s, however, she is unable to spend Mana.

NOTE: I had many ideas for how this could be done, but I think this might be the simplest, and most balanced one... "Might" being the magic word

UPDATE: Reworked it abit after Five Eyes reminded me that Spirits usually have a certain amount of Attributes and a maximum.
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Hide Ban & Bane (Spirit ●●)

Practice: Veiling
Primary Factor: Potency
Suggested Rote Skills: Subterfuge, Occult, Survival
Withstand: Spirit Rank

Another tool that a Mage can use when negotiating with Spirits is to offer protecting their secrets from their enemies. The mage hides the mystical ban, banes, influences or Numina of the subject amongst other information. The spell obscures up to one piece of information per Potency. This doesn't actually do anything to remove or mitigate their effects. Any attempt to discern those qualities either through mundane research is reduced to a chance die. Supernatural powers that may uncover the information cause a clash of wills.

+1 Reach: The mage can provide false results for each piece of information hidden by the spell. If the mage wins the clash of wills or the mundane research rolls fail, the false information is provided instead of the truth.

[Axelgear]

This is more of an update than anything but...

Petrification (Life ●●●● + Matter ●●●●)

Practice: Patterning
Primary Factor: Duration
Withstand: Stamina
Suggested Rote Skills: Intimidation, Subterfuge, Occult

Calling on the legendary power of the Gorgons, the Mage turns flesh to stone with their terrible gaze. The target turns into a statue of themselves, with Structure and Durability as appropriate for a solid stone object of their size and composition (marble is very different than granite, for example).

Targets turned to stone are not dead, but they aren't "alive" either; the target is rendered unconscious and unaware for the Duration of the spell, during which they do not age or hunger. If the statue is damaged in any way, the target receives comparative wounds when turned back to flesh, but is otherwise unaware of any harm done to them. If the damage is repaired before this time, no harm occurs. If sufficient damage is dealt to reduce the statue to Structure 0, the target dies, and reconstructing the statue does nothing to restore them.

Petrified targets, despite their quiescent state, can be communicated with. Mind spells that allow the reading of minds or telepathic contact can interact with the victim as they would any mortal. The target experiences this as a panicked, dream-like state, though sufficient communications in this manner may allow them to become aware of their situation. If they have any magical abilities, such powers are available to them in these moments.

Many mystagogue apprentices report never looking at the statues in their local Athenaeum the same way after learning of the existence of this spell.

[Moinen]

Neros I know. It's not the most elegant solution but I really like the idea of shooting someone into a building with a train.
Inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UHS883_P60